The Kula Ring podcast is essential listening for manufacturing marketers who want to grow their digital presence and compete online.
Sponsored by Kula Partners—an agency committed to helping leading B2B manufacturers craft digital experiences that transform how they engage buyers, serve customers, and outpace their competition—The Kula Ring podcast features conversations about marketing, sales, and technology with top manufacturing executives from across North America.
The Kula Ring podcast is co-hosted by Kula Partners principals, Carman Pirie and Jeff W. White, both of whom are frequently sought after for their digitally-focused B2B expertise. They regularly share their insights with audiences including conferences like B2B Online and HubSpot’s INBOUND, the Gardner Manufacturing Marketer blog, and other podcasts focused on B2B marketing and technology.
With data consumption rates doubling every year, and regulations becoming an industry trend, the data center industry needs to increase its reporting of power consumption. How can companies square their offerings with the global reality, and evolve their positioning and their messaging? Sam Prudhomme is Vice President of Sales and Marketing, Mission Critical Environments for Senneca Holdings, a company with a sub-division called Subzero Engineering that creates products that reduce the carbon footprint of data centers. Sam talks to Carman and Jeff about harmonizing campaign messaging around corporate responsibility and sustainability in order to help customers see the financial benefit of offsetting carbon emissions.
Creating a Sustainability Marketing Campaign That Buyers Can Relate To Transcript:
Announcer: You’re listening to The Kula Ring, a podcast made for manufacturing marketers. Here are Carman Pirie and Jeff White.
Jeff White: Welcome to The Kula Ring, a podcast for manufacturing marketers, brought to you by Kula Partners. My name is Jeff White and joining me today is Carman Pirie. Carman, how are you doing, sir?
Carman Pirie: I am doing well, Jeff. It’s really, it’s good to be chatting today, so I’m looking forward to today’s show, you know?
Jeff White: It should be really interesting. Certainly, lots of issues that affect everyone.
Carman Pirie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, look. I think for our listeners, one thing that we… The genesis of today’s show is that of course our climate challenge is the story of our time, the challenge of our time, and we’ve already interviewed a number of manufacturing marketers who have expressed how either their corporate positioning is evolving or changing as a result of incorporating more sustainability thinking. And then, of course, we’ve had conversations where it’s going much more than just changing how something’s messaged, but you can tell that an organization is fundamentally transforming how they create value, how they account for their impact on the world, et cetera, and taking very evolved approaches to this.
I’m excited for today’s guest, because I think we’re just gonna get another kind of lens on this work, and something that I think all marketers will be able to benefit from.
Jeff White: Yeah, and it’s certainly something that impacts just about everybody in some way, shape, or form, whether they realize it or not.
Carman Pirie: Absolutely. Of course.
Jeff White: Yeah, so joining us today is Sam Prudhomme. Sam is the Vice President, Sales and Marketing, Mission Critical Environments at Senneca Holdings, and through that works with a number of their sub-brands, including Subzero Engineering and others. Welcome to The Kula Ring, Sam.
Sam Prudhomme: Thanks for having me, guys. How are you all?
Jeff White: Doing great.
Carman Pirie: Yeah, fantastic. Fantastic. And we were chatting just before going live here, folks, that Sam’s last name is a nice bit of connection between our home of Nova Scotia and his original home in Louisiana, so we’re hoping that we get the pronunciation of Prudhomme correct.
Sam Prudhomme: You nailed it, guys. You did perfect.
Jeff White: Perfect. Yeah, six years of French immersion finally coming to a head.
Carman Pirie: Yes. Yeah. There you go.
Sam Prudhomme: My French immersion was backyard barbecues in Appaloosa, so we’re probably in the same boat there.
Jeff White: Yours sounds like a lot more fun than mine.
Carman Pirie: I gotta say, I got a feeling that that sounds like a lot of fun, actually. Sam, let’s just jump right into it, because look, I know that you’ve been putting a lot of work into this, and to thinking through how Subzero really helps your customers with this challenge, and consequently how you talk about it as an organization, so why don’t you give us a little bit of background about you, and then let’s just get right into it.
Sam Prudhomme: Sure. At Subzero Engineering, we provide data center containment, and what that is is airflow separation, and so Subzero started in about 2005, doing some CFD [computational fluid dynamics] analyses for the data center industry, and that was really just a way for us to show them where they could gain efficiencies by doing certain things. Back in 2005, I’d say 90% of the data center market had a raised-floor environment, and air leakage was one of the biggest things that Subzero used to point out, to help people gain efficiencies. As the data center market kind of grew, Subzero found it pertinent to start providing products and services to actually account for the problems that they were starting to let customers in on, and so that’s how we became a product manufacturer, and how we began to become who we are today.
I don’t know if a little bit of background on the data center industry for your listeners may be worth it, but a data center is typically just a gigantic building that has server racks, that has servers in the racks, that do computational analysis for all sorts of things that we consume on a daily basis, from point-of-sale situations at Walmart, all the way down to us purchasing things off of Amazon, a data center is typically the place where those computations occur. And so, as we begin to see our need for data digestion grow, it basically just fuels the fire for these data centers to continue to expand, and it continues to drive the need for some of the largest companies in the world to get in on the game.
And that’s how we start correlating our, me, you, everyone who’s listening’s desire to do things on a computer over the internet, to have things at our fingertips right now, this very second, become more socially aware of what we’re actually doing to the environment by demanding that these giant companies give us what we want, when we want it, how we want it. And so, that’s kind of what we want to talk about today, and how Subzero fits into this much broader picture that’s going to try to really help sustain not only these companies’ ability to give us what we want, but sustain our ability to continue to get it years and years and years in the future.
Jeff White: A lot of people really don’t realize just the huge environmental impact that all of these servers and these server farms have on the environment, do they? Nobody thinks when they connect to the internet and they go to make a purchase on Amazon that there’s some giant warehouse somewhere that is just running tens of thousands of gigaflops of data through there, and that uses a ton of power, and this is what you guys are actually doing.
Sam Prudhomme: To give you guys a kind of a small thought, it says for every typical Google search, Google estimates that it takes as much energy to do that search as it does to illuminate a 60-watt light bulb for 17 seconds.
Carman Pirie: Wow.
Jeff White: That really brings it into perspective, doesn’t it?
Carman Pirie: Yeah. You try to explain this to the average Joe and it’s like trying to explain Bitcoin mining.
Sam Prudhomme: Or blockchain, for example, which has to do with Bitcoin mining. I mean, we need somebody a lot more educated in those areas to discuss it, but think about that, a 60-watt light bulb for 17 seconds every time you search for, use Yelp, or make just a Google search, what is a data center? Seventeen seconds of power for a 60-watt light bulb.
Carman Pirie: And then, every time that you’re having a debate with somebody and instead of giving them the answer, you glibly respond with, “Let me Google that for you.” Or, “Why don’t you just go to Google?” You’re killing the environment, really. Like we have to stop that as people. We just need to stop trying to shame people into Googling stuff. Sixteen seconds, or 17 seconds of 60-watt light every time, Jeff.
Jeff White: Yeah, it’s over the top. Yeah.
Carman Pirie: This is transformational to me already.
Jeff White: We’re shutting the whole thing down. All of it.
Carman Pirie: Yeah.
Jeff White: No more computers.
Carman Pirie: Okay, so no more Googling.
Sam Prudhomme: It’s pretty amazing, right? So, if we take that small thing, and then we extrapolate that to where it’s going, right? It says that the information and communications technology sector, that’s everything that encapsulates the entire data center industry, and what we’re doing right now on a webcast, right? Predicts to use 20% of all the world’s electricity by 2025, and emit up to five-and-a-half percent of all carbon emissions, and that was a DOE article that I read just recently.
So, 20% of the world’s electricity will be used for the information communications technology sector by 2025. Pretty amazing, right?
Carman Pirie: It’s astounding. It’s astounding. So, you’re not just telling me this in order to make me an aware global citizen. You’re telling me this to set me up for at least a bit of an introduction as to what you’re doing because of it all.
Sam Prudhomme: That is true, so if we talk about how Subzero fits into this industry sector, we basically can allow these mega data centers, or even small ones, or even one or two-rack closets, to operate more efficiently just through the use of a passive product that separates hot and cold air. Now, that may sound a little bit elementary, but if you think about it, it’s basically kind of really simplistic, whatever the first laws of physics are, right?
The hotter something is, the easier it is to remove said heat, and so if we’re talking hot and cold, there is no such thing as cold. There’s just a presence and an absence of heat, heat being energy. So, if we can separate the hot and cold air inside of a data center, then the hot air that goes back to the air conditioner that is cooling off the data center, we can make that air conditioner more efficient by giving it hotter air to cool off, because the more of something there is, the easier it is for them to remove it.
And then there comes all of the extrapolation based on scale, and we can extrapolate those savings based on the data center’s scale, and typically the scale’s in the form of what we call density, density being how dense the compute power within the data center, even within the racks are. So, the higher the density, the more savings there’s going to be. The more savings, the quicker the ROI. The quicker the ROI, the more they can get their money back for the solution, and then actually start making money on top of it. And I say the word money a lot in that last sentence, because that brings us to where we’re at, right?
Corporations are in business to make money. The reason that they’re supplying us with all this data, the reason they’re making it easy for us to Google is because we, as consumers, demand it, and every time we go to Google, there’s 12 different ads there, and ads are how they make money, and we see those ads, and then we buy things from those people, making it relevant that those ads are on the homepage. And so, if we lead in with monetary savings, a sort of a corporate responsibility, if you will, it really allows us to attack the social side of the issue, which is the emissions side, the green energy side. And so, that’s kind of the way we start to frame how we’re going to go about launching two different parallel campaigns, one dealing primarily with a corporate responsibility, monetary savings, efficiency, making their data centers more dense so they can do more, down to, “Okay, how can we make your data center more green? How can we offset energy usage to create a feeling of satisfaction when it comes to your social responsibility?”
And those are the two divergent paths that we’re gonna go down and just gonna look across the road at each marketing campaign as we go, to see how we’re doing on each side of it.
Jeff White: Pardon the expression, but there’s some wind in those sails, too, because a lot of the organizations who are truly using these huge data centers, they’re certainly aware of the environmental footprint, and I believe you had mentioned in our pre-conversation that a lot of these organizations are looking to become carbon zero, and so this is obviously part of what you’re driving at with Subzero, and how you’re gonna help them get there. Tell us a bit more about what you’re doing in terms of explaining the virtues of the technology and the engineering solution you’re bringing.
Sam Prudhomme: So, you’re correct about that. We are not like a forerunner in the green energy side of things. All we’re doing is looking at the industry, looking at where the industry’s going, and saying, “We can be a part of that, too, and we can use that to leverage some of the emotion, some of the pain that these big boys are feeling, to help us sell our product.” Right? That’s what marketing’s all about. It’s identifying pain and it’s expressing how we can fix that pain to a broader audience.
When you talk about these guys already being involved in it, basically right now, Microsoft uses… 55% of their power is through renewable energy sources, and they hope to be up to 70% by 2023, so they’re well on their way. They understand that they have to do this. The problem is that renewable energy is not 100% available 100% of the time in 100% of the locations that Microsoft has their facilities, and so because of that, we have to continue to allow them to use as little energy as possible, because they want that percentage to go up. And so, if we help them use less energy through efficiency, through our products, the percentage of energy used can go up, which helps them meet their goal faster. And so, that’s a big part of it just in the Microsoft side of things.
Google purchases 100% renewable energy to offset whatever their usage is. That doesn’t mean they use 100% renewable energy all the time, but they are dedicated to the purchase of renewable energy for all of their locations. A lot of these issues are grid issues, and renewable energy, and trying to leverage use of the existing grid is a challenge that a lot of people are experiencing.
When it comes to what we do for this, it’s really just a matter of mathematics and data, and helping people understand how monetary savings equate to emissions offsets, and that’s what we’re really doing a lot of.
Carman Pirie: That’s very… I’m assuming, because you’ve been at it since 2005, doing data center air management. You probably just have a slew of data yourselves about the impact that you’re able to have, and I’m assuming that that model is what’s driving this in some way.
Sam Prudhomme: Right, so if wyou… We went back to about 2015, mostly because the hyperscale industry… I say hyperscale. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that term, but hyperscale is just the form or method of construction in which they build mega facilities as fast as humanly possible, using every method of efficiency they can think of. They call it hyperscale. Hyperscalers didn’t really come into focus until around 2015, so if we take our data back to that point, we can say some pretty incredible things.
So, if we start on the corporate responsibility side, where we can say since 2015, on average, Subzero solutions can reduce energy cost by 29%. Right? Just that right there, you install a Subzero solution, you’re gonna save 29% on your energy cost. Pretty good, right? So, if you look at what that energy cost equals in the amount of carbon reduction, we say things like since 2015, we’ve offset somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5 million tons of CO2. 2.5 million tons of CO2 is about 250,000 SUVs driving 12,000 miles a year. It’s about half a million sedans driving 12,000 miles a year, and it’s about 100,000 trees offsetting carbon for 30 years. Not just planting a tree, but a tree growing for 30 years, offsetting carbon.
So, that’s what we’ve done in the industry to date, and that’s with density somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% on average of what we are starting to see now. So, where this containment and the use of containment used to be driven specifically around densities, and only hyperscalers, we’re starting to see that middle market starting to creep into the notion that containment’s no longer a want. It’s not a need. It’s a must have. And it’s a must have from a monetary savings [standpoint], and we can correlate that directly into the offset of carbon emissions.
Jeff White: Obviously, those are… Almost 30% offset is an incredible figure. It’s certainly going to spur a lot of motion in terms of data center users to want to do that. How else, and I love how you’ve kind of used these analogies of the number of trees planted, versus the number of vehicles in use and all of that. How else are you communicating this to your potential customers and your existing customers, to help them see exactly the benefit that you’re bringing to their data centers?
Sam Prudhomme: Well, if you look at the middle-market data center sector, who don’t have as much, I guess, heat on them from an outside perspective, where people aren’t just looking at them saying, “You’re the largest company in the world. If you’re not gonna help us save the environment, then who is?” It’s more an education to them. In 2011, the DOE released a fundamentals of data center construction best practices, and data center containment was in there. 2011. So, containment is not something that has not been discussed. It’s not something that people don’t think they should use.
I think the bigger issue around our education process is the correlation to using the containment and what it can actually do, and giving them a finite ROI in a finite amount of savings that they can expect, and that’s how Subzero really differentiates itself, is through the math. It’s through data science. It’s not just because our product’s great. I mean, our product is great. It’s not because it has a lifetime warranty. It does, right? It’s because we can show you on day one how this will work, where it will work, when it will work, and how fast it will work, and we basically do all of those things as a free service. So, we call those services our CFD light, which is just a questionnaire that somebody fills out, and with the help of one of our territorial data center solutions managers, we can fill those out and we can give you all that information. So, there’s your corporate responsibility side of things.
Now, what we’re gonna do now is we’re creating an iPhone app, or a cell phone app, I should say, because Android users will be able to use it. And we’re gonna create the same type of calculator within the app. We’re gonna call it an environmental impact assessment, and so this environmental impact assessment will be able to show people, data center operators, lessors, and lessees, exactly what they can do to have an impact on their environment through the use of our products in real time via an online calculator.
And so, we’re gonna really create a call to action and say, “You know, you used to think that you couldn’t afford containment, and now we’re telling you you cannot afford not to install it.” And so, that’s the pain point between social and corporate responsibilities, and how we can fix both.
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Carman Pirie: So, is the assumption, are people that aren’t operating with all of the information that you have, are they kind of I guess opting out of containment, or saying it’s not something that we’re gonna do right now? Because they acknowledge, I’m guessing, that yes, it would be a benefit environmentally. They’re just not convinced of the ROI or the payback time, or something like that? Does the math seem fuzzy to them until they kind of meet you?
Sam Prudhomme: I think the math was fuzzy to them based on server technology, and the lack of density in certain market verticals’ data centers. Just the math didn’t make sense to them. And at the time, energy consumption was not necessarily something that everybody was like on the forefront, right? We were talking about electric cars as if they were somewhere in the future, like with the Jetsons. You know, we fast forward only five years, 60 months, and here we were. We’ve got every big player trying to come up with not only electric vehicles, but autonomous vehicles. We’ve got energy consumption doubles, our data consumption doubles every two years, and so by 2024, we expect the energy consumption that we’re seeing right now to treble. It’ll triple in four years.
And so, now you’re starting to see the really, really big push for these huge data centers to kind of, “Hey, put all your cards on the table. Start recording what type of energy consumption you have. Tell us how it’s affecting the neighborhoods around you. How are you gonna offset this impact?” Right? And so, what these big boys are saying is like, “We’re gonna do our part, but it all comes back to you, Mr. Consumer, who’s demanding that the groceries show up within 2 hours of you ordering them without ever having to get off the couch.”
Carman Pirie: Yeah.
Sam Prudhomme: And so, we have to as individuals, we’re all part of this industry, because we’re the consumers, right? It’s pretty easy for people to say they’re not part of certain industries, because they don’t consume whatever that industry produces. It is not possible for us to say that about this industry, which makes the relevance of what we’re trying to do all that more important.
I would also like to say that the industry still is pretty young. We’re a 20-year-old industry. The automotive industry is hundreds of years old. The masonry business is hundreds of years old. The electrical trade. The data center industry’s about 20 years old. There’s still not enough education and enough dissemination of that education within the industry for people to really understand that containment has this dramatic effect within their facilities.
Carman Pirie: And to that point, I guess how widespread is adoption of containment in the industry overall?
Sam Prudhomme: That’s probably fuzzy. I would say that most new construction, containment is definitely a proactive thought. In other words, engineers and architects are thinking about containment on the front end, figuring how to design it in, and it is part of the original CapEx budgets, and it is not something that gets removed if the job is over budget. So, it is definitely a forethought now.
I would say, though, between 2000 and 2017, millions and millions of square feet of data center white space was built, and I would say 30% of that, if I had to use percentages, but 30% of that probably has containment. The other 70% of that existing white space needs to be retrofitted, and I think that’s where there’s a lot of opportunity for education on the subject.
Jeff White: And sales. Opportunity and sales.
Sam Prudhomme: Opportunity equals sales, right?
Jeff White: Exactly.
Carman Pirie: What do you think as you shape this up, and obviously your messaging is very, very strong here, have you thought about… I guess what’s the biggest reason somebody might say no? What do you think the biggest challenge is that you have in terms of getting people to believe you and believe this messaging?
Sam Prudhomme: I honestly think that there’s still going to be corporate pressures around OpEx expenditures, and I think that as the data center market begins to become commoditized with data center space, commodities create very, very tough monetary constraints on people, so they’re trying to operate a data center as efficiently as possible from a monetary standpoint. Spend less, make more. And sometimes it’s really, really hard for the decision makers to look at a $200,000 solution, that will pay them back in 10 to 11 months, as something that they need to do right now. That 200K could just go to making sure that their two operators are getting paid. It could be that tight. The money could be that tight, because the industry is becoming that competitive.
And so, with that thought, we’re going to have to come up with creative ways to make containment accessible to those people, because the industry’s going to demand it.
Carman Pirie: Man, you got in-year payback-
Jeff White: And still getting pushback.
Carman Pirie: And still getting pushback. That hurts so much. The sales guy in me cringes.
Jeff White: As a ROI-driven marketer. Yeah.
Carman Pirie: Yeah. I’m just like, “My goodness.” If I can pay this back in 10 to 11 months, isn’t that the last… Isn’t that the end of the discussion?
Jeff White: Yeah.
Carman Pirie: The rest of it’s “press hard, three copies,” isn’t it?
Sam Prudhomme: Yeah. I mean, it’s just that competitive a market now. I mean, you’ve got thousands of middle-market colos, who are competing against each other regionally for a single dentist office’s two racks. Right? It used to be like people were very specific around certain HIPAA compliance, and now we have a two-rack solution that may or may not fit the model of a containment layout, and so that customer is like, “No, we gotta win this two racks. Your containment will screw us up, and it’ll make it more expensive in the short term, and in the short term, we need to make money this month.”
And so, it’s the same corporate issues that we see. It’s the same business responsibilities that we have to adhere to, and that’s why we’re sales guys, right? That’s why we say, “Okay. Doesn’t work right now, but we’re gonna come back.” Or, “Hey, if you need us, let us know.” I mean, that’s what proactivity is all about, that we’ll get there before you know that you need us, and then when you do need us, we’re already there.
Jeff White: I think, too, I mean this is the ultimate B2B service that impacts consumers, you know? But the trouble is that there’s no consumer, as you’ve been saying throughout this discussion. There’s no consumer who’s saying, “You know, I demand that my Google search comes back this quickly, but I demand that instead of it taking the same energy as a 60-watt lightbulb for 17 seconds, that it takes far less than that.” You know, nobody who’s searching Google or ordering stuff from Amazon, or a product that is using AWS, is saying, “I want this to be more energy efficient.” They just don’t know.
Carman Pirie: Yeah. They’re not thinking about the environmental impact of it, and they sure as hell are not going to change any of their behaviors.
Jeff White: No. Or demand Google make the changes. Yeah.
Carman Pirie: Yeah.
Sam Prudhomme: So, what happens when we see that, right? What do we see? We see the government get involved, don’t we? Isn’t that what happened in the automobile industry, where we all just wanted the biggest SUVs we could find, and we all wanted V-8s, and we just wanted to sound really big, and no matter what we knew about how it was affecting our environment, we as consumers still want what we want, so that’s when you saw the government get involved and say, “Okay, I’m going to mandate that you have certain emissions standards for your vehicles.” And now, what do we see? We see every car manufacturer going to 4-cylinders or turbos to meet EPA requirements. That is what is going to happen in the data center industry.
They will mandate that these guys be able to give you a search query within 100 millisecond, right? But they’re going to demand that they do it in an efficient manner, and that’s where every low barrier to entry for them to be more efficient comes into play. Right? That’s where we come into play. That’s where Subzero comes into play. Subzero will be the turbocharger of the automobile industry, like to turbocharge a 4-cylinder, get more horsepower, like Subzero’s going to be that for the data center industry. Containment will be that. We can give you more with less, right? We’re the turbocharger.
And so, as we start to correlate these things, and we start to educate folks, the early adopters are gonna be the ones that can offset a lot of the initial impact from these government mandates that will be coming in the next two to three years.
Carman Pirie: That’s a great point, Sam. I think it’s… I wonder, just I know that we’re kind of fast approaching the end of the show, and I just wondered if… This has obviously been a bit of a journey for you. You haven’t… Didn’t decide to strike this kind of messaging and campaign approach overnight. So, and I know that a lot of other marketers are out there kind of facing their own similar challenge, about how do they kind of square their offerings with this global reality, and evolve both positioning and messaging. So, I guess, any kind of parting advice or tips that you might give our listeners that are kind of on the front end of this type of challenge, and they’re trying to attack this in their own organizations? Kind of any tips for how they may approach it, or even kinds of dark things could creep up and bite them in the dark corners?
Sam Prudhomme: I would say that the biggest issue for us moving forward as a society is going to be our environment. I mean, and it may sound a little fluffy and a little hokey, right? We all have jobs, we all have businesses, we all have to worry about it, but to some degree, we all eventually have to start preparing, or start contributing in some way, and you see people go on the beach and pick up plastic. You see people that are recycling things and coming up with ways to make shoes that people need out of ocean plastic. You see all these people getting involved.
And we looked at our industry, and we saw that there were competitors coming in, and we were being commoditized, and all these things, and it was all like, “Poor us, poor us.” It’s not a market retraction, but our market share was shrinking because of competition and commoditization, and so we really looked at it and said, “How do we distance ourselves from that commoditization? How do we further differentiate our brand as somebody who you should partner with?” And so, it’s more just back to the wall, really looking at our industry, looking at ourselves in the mirror, and saying, “What type of company do we want to be and how do we want to tell it?”
And for years and years and years, we were just focused on corporate responsibility. Here’s how much money we can save you. And to some degree, began to fall on deaf ears. And so, we had to think of a parallel way to say the same thing that may draw a little bit of our millennial brethren into the fold, and kind of make them think about what their other pains are. And if we’re all part of this digital infrastructure environment and industry, we really need to say to ourselves, “How are we going to continue to do this without sustainability?” And so, I looked at it, and we looked at it as a company and said, “We want to be the frontrunners in the containment space to demand sustainability from our customers, and from the people that we sell to.”
And so, it’s a call to action, and so I think that anybody in any industry, whether it be metalwork, whether it be automotive, whether we make paper, whether it be making jeans, anything, I think everybody has a significant impact on the environment based on the way they manufacture and based on the way their customers use whatever we’re selling. And if you can correlate what you do to saving energy, saving, offsetting emissions, then I think you got a pretty good strategy there to sell more stuff.
Carman Pirie: And I think you’re taking the next step, as well, as trying to connect it to behavior, and to try to cross that bridge, if you will, between business and personal. I look forward to seeing how the campaign plays out. I look forward to hearing back from you, and I guess just learning of the great results, or maybe lack thereof. Time will tell.
Sam Prudhomme: Yeah. No, we’re pretty bullish on how it’s gonna come out. We’ve got a lot of things in play, and so we’re pretty excited about it. I think you’ll be hearing a lot from Subzero Engineering here in the next couple of months.
Carman Pirie: That’s awesome. Awesome.
Jeff White: Wonderful.
Carman Pirie: Well, Sam, thanks so much for joining us today. It’s been a great chat.
Sam Prudhomme: Thank you guys for having me. I really, really appreciate it.
Carman Pirie: All the best now.
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