Filling the Buckets: Building Solutions and Trust with Your CustomersFilling the Buckets: Building Solutions and Trust with Your Customers

Filling the Buckets: Building Solutions and Trust with Your Customers Transcript:

Announcer: You are listening to The Kula Ring, a podcast made for manufacturing marketers. Here are Carman Pirie and Jeff White. 

Jeff White: Welcome to The Kula Ring a podcast for manufacturing marketers brought to you by Kula Partners. My name is Jeff White and joining me today is Carman Pirie. Carman, How are you doing, mate?

Carman Pirie: I’m doing well. How are you doing? 

Jeff White: I’m doing good, yeah.

Carman Pirie: I’m really excited for today’s podcast. I think You know, sometimes you have an idea of where a conversation is heading and then other times there’s just so much interesting stuff to unpack that It’s gonna remain to be seen where we end up you and I think that’s more reflective of today’s show because frankly today’s guest and the company they work with is, it’s just quite unique too.

So I think that’s the nature of it. I’m really excited for today’s conversation. 

Jeff White: Yeah, I think it should be a lot of fun. Why don’t we dive right into it? So joining us today is Nate Calvert. Nate is the vice president of marketing and business development at KCooper Brands. Welcome to The Kula Ring, Nate.

Nate Calvert: Jeff, Carman, thanks for having me on. It’s a pleasure to be with you. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, it’s awesome to have you on the show and I want to get started here a bit by just understanding a little bit more about you and KCooper. So perhaps for the benefit of our listeners, can we get you to introduce yourself a little bit more? How’d you end up at KCooper and what gets you going? 

Nate Calvert: I’ll start a bit further back. I’m a marketer by trade and had been working with an agency in the Tampa Bay area where I live now and working with brands like Macy’s, and Chick-fil-A corporate, Manny Pacquiao was a client of ours in the boxing space and came across a company called KCooper Brands, who was coming to market, looking for a bunch of work to be done, coming into their space and started working with them. Came on to their team two years after that formally as their vice president of marketing and helping to grow their brands. What KCooper is doing is different than the typical players in their space, which has been a lot of fun to be part of. KCooper Brands now has four divisions focused on supply chain development, not management. Started in the rigid packaging distribution space, George and Kathy Dempsey, the founders had a background of over 30 years in rigid packaging distribution, George had grown to one of the largest rigid packaging distributors in the world.

He was working as chief operating officer, growing them from a 50 million family-owned business to over a billion dollars in revenue, exited, and then decided to come back into the space and do what he could to bring that much more value, both to the distribution customer and also to the manufacturing partners.

From there, the company grown. Servicing some of the largest brands in the world. We’ve gone into the wipe space through COVID. That was an opportunity that we had to, again, develop new supply chains and come to market with some of our own proprietary products, but then also just work with a large vendor base in helping to solve some supply chain crunches.

Carman Pirie: It’s an incredibly unique company. It’s just as you describe it, you’re trying to think of, okay, is there anybody that kind of is exactly like KCooper, or who would you even see as being a competitor? 

Nate Calvert: It’s a good question and we compete, on two fronts, both directly with traditional manufacturers and then also with traditional distributors.

And we blend both of those business models into what we’re doing today. So we have distribution a little bit more traditionally, both domestic and international supply chains and we manage multiple SKUs for our customers from multiple vendors. But then we also come into the space with our knowledge of distribution, taking that learned business model and applying it transcribed specifically in the wipes side of the business substrates, and this is a more technical term for that taking a learned business model from distribution, applying that then in the manufacturing, looking at what’s available from a technology standpoint.

And that’s where we birthed what we call our performance through technology platforms. We’ll talk about that a lot more, I’m sure, as we continue the conversation. But walking through what the customer needs is, and then finding the best manufacturing processes to support the need. And sometimes we say, we don’t just sell what we make. We sell what our customers need. And we figure out the supply chain, the dynamics, the technology, the processes to be able to support that. 

Jeff White: Just to paint a bit of a broader picture for our listeners, like who. Are KCooper’s customers, like what industries are they in and where are they what sort of organizations are they?

Nate Calvert: so as far as our customer base, we really do work with some of the largest brands in the world both our packaging division and our wipes division supporting. National accounts, international accounts, we work quite a bit in food service. So some of the largest QSR brands that we’re engaged with currently, we work in retail and grocery.

So again, some of the largest brands there that we are supporting both through private label and then also just back of the house as well as now also getting into some of the more industrial side specifically with our wipes division. 

Carman Pirie: I want to continue down that thought process around understanding how you chose to come up with this wipe innovation, what that’s about. And I’m guessing we can tell that story a bit through that notion of performance through technology. What’s what was the process that you used to birth this if you will? 

Nate Calvert: We really like to focus on solving problems. And a lot of times, especially with manufacturing, we get trapped into a product-centric model where these are the assets that I have, and this is what I make, and that’s what I can sell to you.

But what we’ve taken from the distribution model, where it centers completely around the customer and their needs, and you walk backwards then into the supply chain, what exists, what doesn’t exist, and what would best serve. Back through COVID, we were supplying quite a bit in the canisters and lid space, that wet wipes would go in, you flip the top and you pull it out supplying the rigid packaging that those wipes would go in.

As we were doing so for some of the largest brands, supply chain and capacity were an issue here in the United States. And we leveraged our international supply chain to be able to bring in on the canister side, the rigid side of the business. And those same customers turned around to us and said, Hey we can’t get the wipes now to go into these canisters.

Is that something you could help us with? And like a good sales team, we said, yes, of course we absolutely can. And then we turned around and scrambled, what do we need to do to bring to market the substrates that are needed to support all of these different applications? And so we looked into, and this is again, where performance through technology was so big for us.

We looked at what is the customer trying to do with these wipes. Then from there, what technologies, and manufacturing assets are able to produce wipes that can meet that need? And then who can we partner with and what can we do from an asset standpoint? What can we do from a technology standpoint and other types of partnerships that we brought to the table to then?

Skirt around some of the capacity crunch, some of the supply chain issues, and some of the blockages that we had, especially with the ports and importing, how do we expand the domestic capabilities here and prioritize made in the USA so we can have those strong resilient supply chains? So from there, we started with kind of the almost a me-too approach.

Here’s what is in the market. And this is an equivalent to that. And then it led into, looking at specifically what the customer’s trying to do, sometimes their hands are tied with what the manufacturing is able to support. So while I may need to do A, B, and C, manufacturing is only able to produce a product that can do A and B.

And we accept that status quo. And it’s good enough. We’re getting the job done in an okay way. And this is where we really enjoy stepping in, trying to find the maximum value for our customers. If we’re trying to do A, B, and C, Here are some things that we can do from a manufacturing standpoint that haven’t been done.

And instead of just accepting that status quo, why not? Why can’t we jump in and bring something to market that does meet all of these needs? And there’s a bit of a process that we go through qualifying and vetting out. Obviously, we don’t always get it right the first time, quite a bit of a learning curve at times, but that’s where we’ve then been able to bring about some of our proprietary offerings that, You look at, let’s talk about the wipe space, where if the goal is to clean a surface, and we’re using a sanitizer, a disinfectant, a quat based solution to do that, a lot of the wipes that we have in the market today, because of the material that’s used in the manufacturing process, are not 100 percent sanitizer compatible.

Without getting too technical, basically, if you have 100 parts per million of sanitizer that you want to get onto the surface. This wipe might absorb 20 percent of that. So you’re only putting 80 percent onto the surface. That’s good enough. The wipe is getting the job done. It’s acceptable. The health department signs off on it, but we wanted to look at if the goal is to have the absolute cleanest environment for the health and safety of our guests and our employees, again, focusing on people here, I don’t want to accept a good enough, I want to make sure that this is the best possible.

And that’s where then, as we look at the different processes available, even the material selection that goes into these wipes products, we start with the customers’ needs. And work backwards. And that’s where we’ve been able to bring pure tech to our proprietary patent pending food service towels, a hundred percent sanitizer compatible. And they check quite a few boxes without making a sales pitch on your podcast. But we help our customers save money. They do clean better. We’ve got the data to prove it and they’re more sustainable. This is part of the material selection. They’re a hundred percent recyclable. And really excited about those three primary value ads that we bring to our customer base.

Carman Pirie: Nate, this is really cool and I just want to understand a few kinds of elements to this because you answered a question I had before I had a chance to ask it, which was, did you just initially replace wipe for wipe? And I think the answer to that was yes, it was really a status quo replacement, but also with the added benefits of a more resilient supply chain more local manufacturing, et cetera.

As you started down that space, they’re asking, hey, can you make this, these wipes too, because we’re running out of those and, our current vendor can’t supply them. Did you ever for a moment, was the thought that we’re just going to replace like for and stop there? Or was there a decision in advance made to say, look at this space and say, you know what, this is something that there’s an opportunity for innovation here.

There are improvements that can be made to this product. And so we just need to get our foot in the door and then start making the improvements later. Just wonder, almost a chicken or egg question, which came first? 

Nate Calvert: This is going to go back to our founder, our CEO, George Dempsey, and his philosophy.

We never accept good enough on anything. And so looking at both the rigid side of the business, the wipe side of the business, a lot of times the first step we take is the me too. It’s the like-for-like, to establish the trust, to show that we’ve got the competency to support what it is that you need and really build that relationship.

And then from there, we’re able to communicate that much more from a trusted position. Here’s some additional value that we bring to the table. It’s a different option. And you guys know this, and especially coming to market with something that’s proprietary and unique, there’s a greater deal of risk on the brand.

This isn’t something that is already established in the marketplace. This isn’t something that’s already widely adopted and accepted and used. And so we have to walk through that adoption process very carefully. We talk sometimes about the change process. You’ve got initial rejection, then you have tolerance, then you have acceptance.

We want to walk through that as gingerly and understandingly as possible. But really, especially on the wipe side of the space, we’ll come in a lot of times with here’s what you’re using. And we might be able to save you some money, or we might be able to improve your supply chain resiliency, or even repatriate your supply on a to-like basis.

And then from there, as we earn the trust, we’re talking through what are your objectives as our customer. Is it to save money? Is it to clean better? Is it to improve your sustainability footprint? There’s a host of other questions that we ask. And then we’re able to, as an advisor, be able to walk them through, here’s other options. That does a better job of meeting your objectives instead of just selling you a product that checks our boxes. 

Jeff White: Nate, do you find, I love that approach of getting them on your side early and then, meeting the good enough criteria and then springing the Trojan horse of the amazing quality wipe that’s possible over here that we can bring to the table.

But how, or are you also trying to approach people who haven’t asked that question with, a truly disruptive product? We’ve certainly seen where you can have the best new solution that nobody’s looking for. And it means that nobody’s looking for it. You have to find other ways in, are you approaching it from from that side as well? Or is it entirely about easing people into it with an on-ramp or something that’s good enough? 

Nate Calvert: We are approaching it from that side as well. And it’s definitely more of a challenge because you have a lot more education that’s involved in the sales process. I can’t solve a problem for a customer. If they don’t know it’s a problem yet. And that’s where we’ve done a lot of, especially on the website. We’ll use that as an example. We’ve done a lot of comparative analysis, and independent lab testing, building the story of this is the status quo at your restaurant. And if you use option A, these are the risks associated. These are the impacts on the environment. This is the cost position. If you’re using option B, same story. And then here’s where we come in with proprietary. So we can match option A and option B, but in so doing, I’m going to educate you on what you’re leaving on the table, both in terms of cost, both in terms of sustainability, then most importantly, in terms of the health and safety of guests.

And I want to be sure to clarify. These brands as a priority, take care of their people, they take care of their employees, they take care of their guests, and it’s not something they do just for PR reasons, these people care deeply, especially about the supply chain, the quality, the upside of making sure that anybody that comes through their premises is taken care of as best as they can.

And a lot of times they’re so busy. That going and researching all of these things about the products that they’re using is just not feasible to be able to go in and have some type of expert-level knowledge on every single skew that they’re managing in their supply chain. It’s just not realistic.

So that’s where it does take time. And we’re very patient with that and building these relationships and having a sit-down conversation and saying, look, if you’re using, for example, a linen rag to clean, it’s not sanitizer compatible whatsoever. You’re absorbing sometimes as much as 60 percent of the quat that’s going onto the surface.

Here’s an improvement that we can make for you. Here’s, in terms of the front of house, your guests are going to experience a cleaner restaurant in terms of viruses, and bacteria, not just the perception of clean that this table doesn’t have crumbs and other stains on it. But then back of the house, this is where we take time and do some understanding of what our customers go through.

We’re replacing a laundered service. So in using linen, a lot of times those towels have to be collected back of the house after they’re soiled and they sit. And they wait a week and collect until they’re picked up to be laundered. So that’s something as we’ve gotten to know this space, that’s a pain point because for a lot of these restaurant brands, these food service brands, you have towels that, and I’m not trying to overhype this, but that are actually rotting in the back of the house at a food service establishment.

And I’m not saying that there are problems with pests at all of these places, but that’s a concern for a food service brand. We have waste that’s sitting inside on the premises that we can’t deal with because it has to be picked up and laundered. So that’s another thing that we eliminate. Then you’ve got to think through the storage space. If you’re saving all of these wipes after they’re dirty on-premise, they have to go somewhere. And now I can’t use that to stock if it’s protein, if it’s other cleaning supplies if it’s fill in the blank just the footprint there. So all of those things that we uncover and walk through very respectfully, are some of the issues with your incumbent position. And we solve those in these ways and then go from there. 

Jeff White: So don’t just spray cleaner on an old t-shirt. Got it. 

Nate Calvert: Absolutely. 

Carman Pirie: And Nate, I want to understand a lot of what you just said is really unfolding in a sales conversation that, I’m explaining to you the more complicated, nuanced differences of our advantage. I can dive into some different nooks and crannies of the argument based on how you’re reacting to it at the moment and based on my ever-evolving understanding of your, customer requirements as a salesperson. And I appreciate that, but I’m wondering as a marketer, do you look at that and say, my job as a marketer is to make sure we’re into those conversations or do you look at it through the lens of saying, I need marketing executions that get us part of the way there to help answer some of these questions in advance?

Nate Calvert: I think it’s both. If you look at demand as a coin marketing and sales of opposite sides of the coin. Marketing I’ve tried to say a lot of times it’s just demand creation sales is your demand capture. And so both sales and marketing have to do the job of communicating the value behind… Marketing, a lot of times leads the conversation through organic channels, through email, and through even sometimes discovery calls.

But to your point as an organization at Kay Cooper, Marketing and sales. We work hand in hand through the entire process. Really the sales cycle and walking through with our customers where they’re at what questions they have and I’ll give you a case in point We were on with a national QSR brand talking with them they’re looking to change the wipes that they’re using and they’re interested in some of the proprietary offerings that we have and we were talking through and this is where a lot of times in marketing we get stuck on our product or our platform and so we’re talking through you’re gonna see you this is going to clean better.

The quat release and the titration release are a hundred percent. And we think that’s such a massive value add because it is you’re cleaning better and the manufacturer, or excuse me the QSR, the buyer turned back to us and said okay, that sounds cool. But what’s quat? And so I’m sitting here as a marketer explaining, here are the advantages that you have with my product, taking for granted that the buyer doesn’t have that intimate understanding of every single SKU that they’re managing, they’re buying 50, a hundred different items. Their priority is making sure that the supply chain doesn’t get disrupted, not having a masterful understanding of every single SKU, the technical understanding behind it, and the application of it on-premise, they’re making sure that they don’t disrupt operations. And so then the conversation has to shift.

Here’s what’s happening when you clean. And we’re coming in as a partner to help you clean your restaurants better. So here’s all of the different components of that. And now let’s talk how this product stacks up against what you’re using. 

Carman Pirie: And is there any way for marketing to smooth that? Is there any way for marketing to grease those skids? Or is it at the end of the day, it’s just going to be a sales conversation? 

Nate Calvert: What we’ve really been intentional about at Kay Cooper is doing our best by building some of these relationships with the brands, with our customer targets, and understanding what they see from where they sit as true value. What do they care about?

What are the problems that they’re trying to solve? Where a lot of times when we focus from the manufacturing side on our assets, our capabilities, our technology, on our products, we miss that the customer might not necessarily care about the technical nuance. But the technical nuance solves a problem just in different terminology.

The simplest way to explain that is, with our pure tech food service towels, the material selection enables it to have a 100 percent titration release. And to somebody with the technical understanding, that’s impressive. Wow. Because titration release on a standard food service towel is about 80%.

But to the brand, that’s not something that they’ve ever even had to come across. They care about how clean is my restaurant. And so we have to go through and educate. And we do this with case studies. We do this sometimes with long-form articles that go out in blogs. We do this with email campaigns, even just conversations.

We get in the room with the people that we’re trying to build relationships with through different trade events, whether it’s trade shows and otherwise, and just have a dialogue with them around, Hey, did you realize that if you’re using this? These are some of the risks associated. And I’m happy to have a conversation with you about options in the market, that solve that for you.

So again, taking more of an understanding of where does the customer’s perspective lie and then addressing from where they sit, here’s some of the gaps and sometimes our CEO calls these knowledge gaps. The brand doesn’t have full visibility on every component that they’re bringing in. They have full visibility of their execution as a brand. They have full understanding of what they do that differentiates them in the space. Not necessarily every single nut and bolt that gets brought in to actually make that possible. And so we then sit with the brand and talk through with them. Here are some of the challenges that you’re going to face as you move forward. Here’s some of the knowledge gaps that we’ve seen by working with brands like you. And here’s just education around how to overcome that. You can go with us. You can go with other options. In fact, here they all are. We’ll lay it out for you and help you make the best decision for your business and the needs that you’re trying to meet.

Carman Pirie: I think this conversation applies to an awful lot of manufacturers. Organizations within an awful lot of different kinds of industrial categories are in some way selling a bit of a better mousetrap but trying to educate the customer on catching mice at the same time. Which is if I had to break it down into some different buckets, I would say it’s on the one hand, sometimes it’s our solution performs better. Sometimes it’s that it delivers a safety benefit, in the interest of your wipes, there may be a combination there, right? Performing better may enhance safety, but that isn’t always the case. There can be an environmental or sustainability benefit, often. And then there are more, maybe, some might say practical considerations, like more reliable logistics, or just a lower price.

If we look at those four buckets. As you’ve worked in this space and kind of endeavored to communicate the multifaceted benefits of a superior product, would you be able to rank which ones are likely to resonate with industrial buyers most? 

Nate Calvert: I love that’s the analogy you went with because at KCooper we’ve actually brought it down to three as we’re looking at the wipe space, whether it’s food service, whether it’s grocery, retail, even industrial and some more of institutional accounts, the customer is going to look at one or more of these three as their primary objectives. For us, it’s save money, clean better, or improve your sustainability.

And what we’ve done is brought a product to market that actually does all three. So when we come in from a marketing and a sales perspective, not knowing the customer’s priority, we want to find that out first and foremost. So we think in terms of layers, we lead with those three, save money, clean better, improve sustainability. And we allow the customer to then tell us, This is the priority for us. For some who are getting hit very hard by the economy and already operate on slim margins, cost savings are a priority right now. And as long as we don’t regress as a brand in our health and safety, and we don’t do anything terrible to the planet as a result, we just want to find cost savings. And we’ll help with that for as a supply chain development partner, we will make sure that we do that, whether it’s, and this is where we pull back a layer, right? We can shorten your supply chains. We can diversify the fulfillment footprint across the country and really optimize your freight lanes. We can improve your cube efficiency, and pallet pack out. All of those things come together to tell the story, but I don’t lead with any of them. I just focus on the highest level. And then for some customers, it’s the improve the cleaning. And then we talk about material selection and sanitizer compatibility. And we talk about the impact of having recyclable versus disposable. And that, that feeds into then sustainability footprint. And we talk about across the entire supply chain, how we’ve taken from the manufacturing process and tried to minimize our impact on water use. An actual carbon impact waste and how we handle that going into freight, the cube efficiency, the pallet pack out, maximizing that truck, shortening freight lanes, all of those things then come into support.

But we do, we think in layers and we allow the customer to lead that dialogue. Where do they want to go? We’re prepared to answer all of it, but we’re not going to overwhelm them and try to talk through every single nuance at the outset. 

Carman Pirie: And Nate, so that I understand it. I think is it fair to say that the product that you have that cleans better and the more innovative wipe is more expensive than the standard and you basically, have a number of different kinds of grades and qualities that you can bring to bear depending on the customer.

Nate Calvert: This is the cool thing. Because of the performance through the technology platform, our approach to manufacturing and what is possible, focusing on the technologies and processes available, it cleans better and it is less expensive. We’ve optimized the amount of raw material that’s needed. And through a couple of different proprietary processes, we’ve reduced the raw material by sometimes, depending on what you’re comparing it to 40, 50%.

While it’s still as thick or thicker as the towel it’s replacing, plus then is a hundred percent sanitizer compatible. So that’s where for us as a brand, having that intimate knowledge on the technical side, what is possible from a manufacturing standpoint within this space and how do we do it best. And then we come to market. 

Carman Pirie: I think, look, to be fair, I think a lot of marketers could be listening to this and saying, yeah, the job gets really hard when you’re like twice as expensive, but you’re better and all the other categories, but I think that does talk past probably some of the other challenges that you mentioned that even if you are the same price or less expensive getting that product from a new supplier In a new method that introduces uncertainty and derisking purchases is what these folks are all about. I think I can see both sides of that coin. 

Nate Calvert: Yeah, for sure. And that’s, that has been a challenge where, you look at your bell curve of adoption, right? And you’re working uphill for quite a bit until you have that market acceptance. But communicating the value while also trying to mitigate the risk on the brands and, especially in the food service space, to their credit the people at these brands care deeply about the health and safety of their customers and their employees. So they do take their time, not just with us, but with all of their suppliers to make sure that these products are vetted out. There aren’t going to be unforeseen risks. So it’s a longer sales cycle. For sure, but it’s one that we’ve seen, especially with our approach that has turned out to be a lot stickier in terms of the relationship and really do see true value partnerships between ourselves and our customers as a result.

Jeff White: I think there’s even one other. Carman, you listed four and Nate, you mentioned, that you guys had reduced it to three kinds of core advantages of the product. 

Carman Pirie: You’re not introducing another bucket, are you? 

Jeff White: I’m introducing, sort of,  but I think it’s a challenge that needs to be addressed a lot of times because I think there are certainly a number of situations. In the case where a product meets code or an upcoming policy change or governmental edict, someone’s not even aware that they’re going to need to address that. And it can often be really difficult to sell on the idea that your product meets the letter of the law and that’s a significantly better factor for people. Do you ever run into that one? 

Nate Calvert: We do, and you see this a lot for us on the rigid side of the business. You have states like California, New Jersey and others that are passing regulations in terms of plastic use and post-consumer recycled content and things that need to be put into new products that are being manufactured with plastic materials.

A lot of times, and this is where, again, we talk about knowledge gaps. A lot of times the brand is not aware of these legislations. And so it’s on us as marketers to communicate this is coming to you. This is something that will impact you and here’s how, and here are the options that are available to you. Let’s talk. 

Carman Pirie: I think we could tee up an entirely different podcast on that one, Nate, because it’s a can of worms for sure. I think an awful lot of brands out there are thinking, it shouldn’t be my job to educate the market on regulations that are coming up. I can’t afford to do etc. Isn’t it enough that I’ve innovated the product to actually solve this problem? It’s a really interesting challenge, I think, Jeff, that you introduced there with that fifth bucket, and you’re right, a lot of people do encounter that regulatory component to it. Nate, this has been a fascinating conversation.

As expected, I think we danced all over the place a little bit, but it’s been really fascinating to dig into the firm and this process, particularly bringing the wipes to market at it just, so many different aspects to go down and explore, it’s been an enjoyable conversation.

Nate Calvert: Thank you for having me on, really enjoyed it. Hopefully, there’s something there for the listeners that they can latch on to and try to bring some more value for their customers. 

Jeff White: I have no doubt. Thanks a lot, Nate. 

Announcer: Thanks for listening to The Kula Ring with Carman Pirie and Jeff White. Don’t miss a single manufacturing marketing insight. Subscribe now at kulapartners.com/thekularing. That’s K U L A partners dot com slash the Kula Ring.