From Project to Product: The Story of Reimagining PrefabricationFrom Project to Product: The Story of Reimagining Prefabrication

From Project to Product: The Story of Reimagining Prefabrication Transcript:

Jeff White: Welcome to The Kula Ring, a podcast for manufacturing marketers brought to you by Kula Partners. My name is Jeff White, and joining me today is Carman Pirie. Carman, how are you doing, sir? 

Carman Pirie: I couldn’t be more excited for today’s show. 

Jeff White: No, I think this is a really interesting topic. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah. And I’m a sucker for anytime you can like, how, changing how you think about something like just almost like concept fundamentally.

Yeah. Yeah. Conceptually, or the highest level, how that drives tactical. Real change on the ground. Yeah. I’m not to give too much away, but I think anytime that we’re swimming in those waters, I’m 

Jeff White: interested for sure. And when that, kind of fundamental change in thinking of an offering also changes how you have to talk about it and how you sell it and all of that.

Oh, I love it. Anyway yeah. So let’s get right into it. So joining us today is Angela Jackson. Angela is the marketing Director at Clark Pacific. Welcome to the cooler ring, Angela. 

Angela Jackson: Thank you. Thank you for having me today, 

Carman Pirie: Angela. It’s awesome to have you on the show. We didn’t put you too much on the spot there with that intro, did we?

Angela Jackson: No, not at all. I have a lot to live up to here. 

Carman Pirie: We look, we won’t we don’t need to jump right into it. However, I think first things first, it would be. Lovely for our listeners to learn a bit more about Clark Pacific and how you ended up there. So please tell us a bit about the firm and a bit about you.

Angela Jackson: Okay. Clark Pacific, we’ve been around for 60 plus years. We were founded by Jim Clark back in 1963 and. Primarily focused on architectural systems, so building envelope systems, architectural precast. And the company is currently run by his two sons, Bob and Don Clark. And since then we’ve expanded our reach from not only facades, but full structural systems and moving into prefabricated building systems.

Complete data centers, complete office systems. And complete par parking structures, but also evolving our prefabricated facade systems to include the insulation, the frame, the weather barrier finishes, and the fire saving. So really taking. The, those, these building systems offsite manufacturing them and then transporting ’em to the site for erection.

So think of it as, as Legos. So we’re designing and building and through modeling and manufacturing, and then assembling on site like you would like a Lego set. I 

Jeff White: have a lot of questions about that, but before we get into that, why don’t you tell our audience about yourself too? 

Angela Jackson: So before coming to Clark Pacific about nine years ago, I spent about 15 years in sales and marketing in the high tech industry.

So my last position was in a construction software company where I marketed project and program management software to owners and. After four years there, I was asked to come over to Clark Pacific really to help them transition into this product, from this project to this product mentality.

And the audience was the same. So we were still going after owners, architects and general contractors, but just in a different product and different industry where a manufacturer, not a software developer. 

Jeff White: I think the thing that still strikes me as really interesting, even though we’ve been hearing about prefabricated building materials and building envelopes and even whole structures for a while, but it’s still not the most common way of thinking about it is it? 

Angela Jackson: Yes. Prefabrication. That is, it’s a misconception that prefabrication is that modular building moving down the highway and we’ve spent a lot of time. Showing people what you can do with prefabrication. When you think about the building, the project offsite, the efficiencies that you can get with designing for manufacturing and then assembling it on site and, we can achieve great things that you can’t achieve in the field.

So various finishes complete systems. So really it adds a lot to an architect or an owner’s project if they think about prefabrication. Before they even start designing their project? 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, the benefits of manufacturing within a controlled environment and the quality control that happens there versus doing it all on site.

There are a ton of. Benefits. It’s interesting that Jeff pointed that out, like that challenge would, that would persist because I was thinking you also have made a career out of working in a field that has some of the most challenging buyers to reach, like building owners and people in the contracting space.

There just notoriously difficult to get in front of. 

Angela Jackson: They are and I know when, and they all have their own, okay. Everybody comes together for the good of the project. And, the way I market it, it’s the way Clark Pacific looks at it is we’ve target the owner because the owner is the one ultimately that has to live with the project or the, the building after everyone else goes away.

Helping them create a stakeholder team that can help them. Achieve what they want. So we spend a lot of time educating architects on the value of prefabrication, how to design for prefabrication so that they can take that benefit back to the owner and if the project makes sense, explain that this would be an another option than traditional build.

Same with general contractors. There’s a lot of efficiencies that can be found on the job site, with just reduced site impacts. Speed. The speed of the installation of the building envelope or the structural system, and that benefits the general contractor. It gets them off the site faster, but then ultimately the owner can take control of their building faster.

Carman Pirie: So Ansel, I really, I wanna unpack this understand what you mean by that transition from a project to product. And and then I guess once I understand a little bit more about what you mean I’m guessing I’m gonna pepper you with a whole lot of other questions about what that’s meant.

But I guess what is the, so as you say, that can help us understand what you mean when you say that. 

Angela Jackson: Certainly in years past, before we decided to, to productize we would we would create a building envelope system that was bespoke to a particular project and viewed as at the subcontractor, either, the general contractor or the owner developer.

And so each. Building facade or structural system that we manufactured was bespoke and we’re a manufacturing company and has all your. Manufacturing listeners will know is that you, it’s really hard to gain manufacturing efficiencies if everything you manufacture is different. So in about 2016 it was, Hey, let’s approach the market different.

Let’s create products. Based on what we’re already doing, where we do have efficiencies and make it easier for the architect to say, to spec a certain product that will achieve their goals or the owner or the general contractor. And with that we changed our mark, our perception of how we looked at the market.

We went from let’s look at a project and how can we develop a system for that project versus now let’s look at the market and. Work in that market for, so for instance, student housing has specific needs, a multifamily housing, and as we’re developing the product what are the scopes and the systems that need to be created and productized to meet the market’s needs versus looking at it as from a project basis, so what does the market need?

And with that, then in 2017. We announced really our first product and that was park a full, a complete parking structure. So it very difficult in.

To market a complete parking structure. That’s not how owners and developers buy a parking structure. They hire a general contractor who subs out all the concrete work and all the other MAP systems, and then we’re marketing a parking structure as a complete system that we will design. Manufacture and build the complete parking structure.

And it was a different, it was a shift in how we market, how we approach the market. Because now with coming, going to market with a parking structure as our product, that we were able to, po position differently for the market’s needs versus a project need. 

Jeff White: I wonder, when you, how do you prototype a parking garage?

I understand how you consider prototyping the components and but even in a huge facility of a parking garage, fully realized is probably too big. So how do you go about prototyping this so that you can understand the whole thing as a product? I. 

Angela Jackson: So great question. So before we productized park and we productized the parking structure we had probably another 10 or 15 years in structural manufacturing structural systems.

So taking all the things we’ve learned over the years around the various components that go into a parking structure and modeling. So we rely heavily on, on modeling and what’s. Really different about prefabrication is that we, once we model it, then we design it for manufacturing and we model it again for manufacturing.

And so really we’re going through several stages of modeling and cost detection before we start manufacturing. And so we can prototype and look for inefficiencies and really look to see if we have the most efficient solution that we can offer to the client. And then through there, through just efficiencies and repeating this product mentality that we’re able to make changes to the product.

So it’s continually getting better and more efficient in itself for manufacturing and also, and for installation, I. 

Carman Pirie: It’s it’s a fascinating thing because from a marketing perspective, I can see, when every when. The only thing that you have in your backlog is a whole bunch of projects that you’ve done, and they’re all different and for different types of people, and they all have their own little nuances.

You can probably find yourself, whether it’s in the marketing or sales part of the process. Almost spending a bunch of time justifying why, or, trying to explain why it’s a hard thing to talk about. Look, everything’s custom and that’s, but what the second you shift to thinking about it as through a product lens, then products have consistent characteristics.

It allows you to see, and it almost facilitates a way of talking about. The things that between those projects that were the same, you have skews. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it just, have you found that’s what has gone done is really just helped you be more consistent and efficient in your communications?

Angela Jackson: Very much we. We find that being able to talk about the product and then what is consistent on that across all customers in all markets is much easier. What’s consistent in our product is the. For instance, in our building envelope system, it is a frame, the insulation, the weather barrier of the finish and optional the windows and so that’s taken care of from a product standpoint.

And then where the architect can come in and say, okay, I want this product. And it’s designed for me. The connections are set. I now don’t have to worry about the constructability of this envelope system. I can worry about what it’s going to look like. So what are the, what is the color? What is the finish?

What is the, the revelations, the the patterns. So there’s a lot of flexibility. Once, once they get behind, once they get in the front of the building, what people see every day. And really what’s productized and what we’ve designed our manufacturing standards on is what’s behind that wall, behind that facade.

Jeff White: Architects and designers are notorious, and I say this as a person with a design background for wanting to be able to do everything their own way, but then when given systems, they actually. Typically come around, but do you find that part of the challenge of marketing this as a product is getting them to think within the constraints of the system and still be able to achieve something that meets their unique requirements?

Angela Jackson: Yes. It’s, again, getting back to your question earlier on, on prefabrication, when people thought of it is just, that box, maybe moving down the highway. And so with that comes. They don’t get design flexibility. They don’t have the flexibility to achieve the design intent for either their vision or the project’s vision.

And we do spend a lot of time explaining and educating on. No, that’s not true. If you think about prefabrication in the very beginning and you take the product and understand how to design to that, then really you have the design flexibility is there. We have, with the different finishes and systems and materials, we can do a lot as far as as achieving a lot of different.

Looks and feels for all types of projects 

Carman Pirie: in that education work, I’m curious on both sides of it. I’m wondering what the biggest challenge has been in it. And I’m also curious what is what you’ve found to be the most successful in communicating these messages? What tactics or approaches?

Maybe I’ll choose your own adventure there an you can answer either of those questions, 

Angela Jackson: So really when we started this journey of really of launching products in 2017 it was really, we spent probably. 90% of our time back in 2017 and probably through 20 23, 24 really. Just educating on offsite construction.

What is prefabrication and ways we did that is are through Lunch and Learns webinar series email nurture campaigns. I listened to a recent podcast you did with Stephanie Nolan at Square Robot. And, her challenge is they have the robots that go into the tanks and no one knows about their products.

So how do you do that? And and how does she educate the market? And I really enjoyed listening to that podcast because it was okay, we’re doing a lot of those same things and it’s just all about educating your audience on what’s possible. Our sales cycle is 18 months, usually anywhere between 12 to 18 months, and so before anything gets put on paper, we’re out trying to educate and explain how you go about designing for prefabrication and getting that as something that they, that might be considered for their next project.

Carman Pirie: Part of me thinks that, if somebody doesn’t have a, a project on the horizon that’s an ideal fit for this scenario. Maybe they’re not as open to being educated about it at that point. Do you find that there’s a, that you have to be sniffing for when timing that education around an opportunity or were you just happy to run out in advance of those opportunities and invest in educating the market more broadly?

Angela Jackson: Really it’s the latter. Running out and educating the market more broadly and then looking at our account lists and owners and developers and architects that we’ve done business with in the past, and educating them further on. When you, when do you bring in our product? When you start thinking about our product and designing for manufacturing, a lot of times, as we made that shift from, pre 2016, I’ll say to post 2016, it’s when you bring us in. So the most efficiencies in manufacturing is when we’re in schematic design. And to spec the product and design within the product parameters versus I’d say. Pre 2016 or we were trying, like I said, everything was custom.

We were designing everything to be custom and that, we weren’t getting the manufacturing efficiencies. And so we really would do some great things and we still do great things. It’s just how when they bring us in is different now when, if they worked with us maybe 10 years ago versus now is, we like to be in the very beginning for that.

Carman Pirie: The folks delivering these solutions, not just the folks marketing them, but the how have they responded to this? Do they, I guess the I’m curious, have the change management around moving to a more product based approach have has any, is there anyone sitting out there on your team that’s feeling like they maybe don’t get to exercise the creativity that they’re used to?

Or is everybody fully leaning into this? 

Angela Jackson: It’s, that’s a great question, and I would say from a cultural perspective, we are at the same time that we did the switch from that project to product mentality for the, for our market, we also had to do a lot of education and marketing to our internal teams on why this was important.

To approach the market in this way. Why we need to productize and why we need to standardize and I think, speaking for, I’ll speak for all 1400 employees, I feel like everyone’s still able to exercise their creativity because even with the product. Productization and everything being standardized on the back end, there’s still so much room for design and and to really fun different designs and aesthetics that we can achieve.

And then there’s always the how do we make the challenge of how do we make it more efficient? How do we make this. A more efficient for manufacturing and how do we make it easier to install and where can we gain more efficiency? So there’s it’s a different challenge, but there’s still, there’s still a fun challenge that, that this productization mentality has brought to our internal teams.

Jeff White: I love that the the notion that you can still find creativity within systems and bring that, to the problem solving that your team is having as well. Has there been a ha have you seen a marked difference in growth after moving to the productized offering over everything being custom before the 2017?

Angela Jackson: We have, we have seen what’s been really exciting as a marketer is that we are now seeing our product specced in by architects and by owners. They are specking our product. So I feel that the education and the work we’re doing through, all the different channels that we’re using is that we’re reaching that audience and now they’re specking our product.

And honestly for me, as a marketer, that’s been such a great win. It’s just okay, like we’re getting there. It’s their understanding the product and it’s value and it’s. Which is exciting. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, no, I can see popping champagne corks for that, for sure. Definitely.

And there’ll be times when you’re making that transition where you’d be just thinking, 

Jeff White: what are we doing? 

Carman Pirie: Yeah. Are we ever gonna get specked? Are we ever gonna get a gimme pot? Just gimme one. This isn’t more efficient. What do you mean? Yeah, 

Angela Jackson: e Exactly. Yeah. Just what are we doing here? 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, it does.

That’s fantastic. Congratulations on that. That’s, but it’s, it is, it’s funny, we we interview marketers every week and sometimes the celebrations and wins are few and far between, so it’s nice. 

Jeff White: It doesn’t mean they’re not there. We just. Typically don’t take them. 

Carman Pirie: Do we expect, are you saying we focus on the negative, Jeff?

Jeff White: No. I’m just saying we overlook the the wins and the positives and don’t necessarily celebrate them to the degree we should. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah. Yeah. You’re probably quite right there. Angela, as we turn our attention to what’s next, you mentioned that. You felt like almost you were in education mode until about 23, 24.

So if I’m, am I reading too much into it to suggest you’re now seeing that you’re pivoting into a new evolution in the marketing. I guess what if you have to look into crystal ball for the next year or two, how will the, your marketing be different in the next two years than it was in the previous two?

Angela Jackson: I think our marketing will evolve over the next couple years as our product evolves. So as we create more standards and more product SKUs and different products that this will soon start marketing more of a portfolio of products for different markets and different use cases. I don’t see the education portion of the marketing going away because there’s.

Constantly new, new architects coming into the market, new owners and developers thinking like, maybe I need to try something different. I need a different outcome. What do I try? And general contractors too who might be new to prefabrication that are say, okay, I’m hearing a lot about this.

I need to start learning more about this. So there’s always a part of the marketing that we focused on education. A couple years ago we did a better together campaign. And it really focused on the stakeholders and the benefits of the product and prefabrication for each of those stakeholders.

Because we were coming at it as a from the thought that if everyone knows the benefits for. There are other stakeholders in that project, then they understand, okay, if this is my benefit, but this is also benefiting the general contractor, this is also benefiting the owner, and how do we come together to make a better, build a better.

Building essentially for our customer, the owner. And then we’ve learned a lot as we’ve gone through this process over the last eight, nine years and continuing to look at how do we, and how do we evolve our products and make those, easier to spec and easier to design for. And so really it’s going to be focused now on our product evolution and getting those into the, our different markets in different regions.

Carman Pirie: That makes total sense to me that they’re relatively new as a product-based company. So as you continue to manage and nurture those products and evolve them over time, then inevitably they’ll become, how you market them, become more sophisticated how they, the combinations of them for specific markets, verticals.

Yeah, exactly. It makes sense. I really look forward to watching this unfold. Angela, my money is on you folks to pull this off. I think that it can be very challenging industries to change, that people are very stuck in their ways, but I said if I had to put any money on it, I’d say, I think you guys got it.

Got it sorted. This has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today. 

Angela Jackson: Thank you and thank you for having me. 

Jeff White: No, it’s been a wonderful conversation. Thanks, Angela.