How B2B Manufacturers Can Harness Emotional Connections in Marketing CampaignsHow B2B Manufacturers Can Harness Emotional Connections in Marketing Campaigns

How B2B Manufacturers Can Harness Emotional Connections in Marketing Campaigns Transcript:

Announcer: You’re listening to The Kula Ring, a podcast made for manufacturing marketers. Here are Carman Pirie and Jeff White. 

Jeff White: Welcome to The Kula Ring, a podcast for manufacturing marketers, brought to you by Kula Partners. My name is Jeff White and joining me today is Carman Pirie. Carman, how are you, sir?

Carman Pirie: Everything is great, Jeff, and I’m excited for today’s conversation. You know, I think if you think about it from the beginnings, really, of Kula Partners, I think in the first day we launched, we had a cube grenade up on our wall.

Jeff White: Cartoon. 

Carman Pirie: Well, Hugh called it a cube grenade at the time, but it’s a cartoon… 

Jeff White: Yep. 

Carman Pirie: …that Hugh MacLeod drew for us from gapingvoid.com way back in the day, and simple message: “People matter, objects don’t.” And really, what we were… We’ve kind of hooked on that in a lot of different ways over the life of the agency. 

Jeff White: For sure. 

Carman Pirie: But basically, we’ve always said that organizations don’t buy anything. People buy stuff. Marketing fundamentally has to work at the level of people, not the level of objects, or things, or stuff. So, I’m excited for today’s guest, because we’re really looking at that from the angle of actually bringing people into the creative that we’re presenting as marketers, as B2B marketers, and the impact that it has. So, awesome to be in this discussion. 

Jeff White: No, very, very, cool, and nice to be able to bring the cube grenade into a podcast episode. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, you know, like a decade later. It’s still relevant, so it’s good. 

Jeff White: Well, it’s still on the wall here. So, joining us today from Mark VII is Luke Schoenbeck, who is the Marketing Director there. Welcome to The Kula Ring. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Thanks for having me, guys. 

Carman Pirie: Luke, it’s wonderful to have you on the show today. I wonder if you would start off by just maybe telling our listeners a bit more about Mark VII and your role there. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, sure. So, Mark VII is the North American subsidiary of a company called WashTec, and what we do is manufacture car wash equipment, we service car washes, and we provide car wash chemicals, as well. So, in car wash equipment, primarily rollovers, so when you go to a convenience store, that’s the one you’re probably gonna see, where you park in the bay and it goes back and forth over your car. We also work in tunnels, as well, which are the conveyors where you throw your car into neutral and it pulls you through the tunnel. So, as I said, we sell the equipment, service the equipment, and provide the chemicals for that as well. 

Carman Pirie: So, chances are if people are listening to this podcast, they’ve been in something you made. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah. Pretty good chance of that. We are, as a whole, WashTec, we’re the largest global car wash equipment manufacturer, so yeah, pretty good chance, whether you’re listening to us in the US, Canada, or over in Europe, even in China, pretty fair chance you’ve been through a piece of our equipment. 

Carman Pirie: And do you have proprietary technology on that multicolored foam or something? Is that you guys?

Luke Schoenbeck: Some of that, yeah. So, ShineTecs is one of our products, which is a multicolored foam that kind of provides that finishing shine on your car. That is proprietary for us. 

Carman Pirie: Okay. You know, you always wonder-

Jeff White: Yeah. 

Carman Pirie: Who decided to make this stuff pink and blue, like it’s kind of cotton candy on your car as you’re sitting there. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah. I mean, there are a million different brands of that tricolored foam, but yeah, yep, we have our own that’s-

Jeff White: It’s really… You know, I think that’s the sales strategy, is, “Dad! Dad! Take me through the colored car wash!” My kids have done that many times. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Oh yeah. That’s it. It’s a lot of show. 

Carman Pirie: I think I interrupted you there just when you were about to tell us what you do with Mark VII. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Oh yeah. As Marketing Director, I’m responsible for all marketing across US and Canada, so that involves a great deal of work on the digital side. We still do some work in traditional, in print, in newsletters and content creation, and we have a large number of trade shows we work in, as well, so I’m responsible for brand awareness and spreading the message to our major segments, which are auto dealers, convenience stores, and your standard car wash operator. 

Carman Pirie: Very cool, and I think when we chatted originally and kind of teed up the recording of this episode, we had talked about this notion of the campaign that you’d brought to life around—and I don’t want to get it wrong, so I apologize if I do—but I think something around the people that power clean cars, and how you’ve kind of transformed your marketing around the notion of making it about the people at Mark VII. Did I get that right, and if so, could you begin to take us through it a bit?

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and you’re spot on. It features people from our factory, who make these clean cars, ultimately. They are responsible for this quality equipment, and then therefore ultimately responsible for a customer at a car wash getting a clean car, and this idea came about back in 2018. I was at a marketing conference, and the speaker had done some work in the canned beer industry, and he had a client, and he said the client’s beer was sealed. It had a protective layer within the can that sealed in the cold and freshness, and he said the dirty little secret was every can of beer does that, but no one was telling that story. 

And that kind of got the wheels turning for me of, you know, every car wash equipment manufacturer has people that make the equipment, obviously, but no one’s telling that story. The marketing that I’d seen around our industry was very cut and dry. You throw up a picture of a car getting washed, and then a shiny car. Here’s the features and benefits. Either you’re gonna compete on the high-quality side of the low-cost side, and it was really, really difficult to stand out, because anyone could tell that message. It was pretty simple, and you’d seen it a million times, so it was becoming really difficult to be unique when you’re just telling that same story over and over again, trying to compete on all the exact same things. 

So, I had an idea that you know, we’re made right out here, just outside of Denver, in Arvada, Colorado, and we have our headquarter office here, and we have our people in the factory right behind our headquarter office who are amazing people, who are doing really great things to make really quality equipment. So, let’s kind of change the narrative a little bit and talk about these people that ultimately power the clean cars. So, that’s where the idea came from, and from there, there was a great deal of logistics in putting that together, so if you guys like, I can walk through step by step all those little pieces that came together. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, I’d love to get into that. But before that, I want to just kind of almost poke holes in a previous argument that I’m sure I’ve made on this show in the past, where… Because I’ve talked a lot about the QSP trap and this notion of almost every manufacturer in existence talks about how, when asked what separates from their competitors, they’ll say something like, “Oh, well, we have the best quality, and amazing service, delivered by the most awesome people.” And it’s like a sea of sameness, because everybody says the same thing. 

So, maybe I’m kind of agreeing with you or maybe I’m disagreeing. I’m not sure, but it seems to me what you’ve done is more than just kind of pay lip service to that. You’ve said, “We’re actually gonna make the choice to change the narrative and to change the conversation about this in a meaningful way, and highlight people, and make it actually more of a strategy, rather than just a talking point.” 

Jeff White: Well, and I think too, if you’re bringing that to life as part of the campaign, it’s a bit different than just paying lip service to the idea of saying that your people are the thing that makes you different from others. They’re actually showing it. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah. 

Jeff White: Yeah, yeah. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Right. 

Carman Pirie: All right. Well, I was just trying to disagree with myself, or with somebody on the show. I don’t think it worked. But I guess, Luke, I mean you must find that in the industry. I mean, there’s not a lot of people going to market saying, “By the way, our car washes are made by very terrible people that you don’t ever want to meet.” It’s more that you’ve just decided to be a more active participant and actually take the opportunity to tell the story in a unique way. Is that it? 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, absolutely, like with that beer can example. I mean, every can of beer was sealed the same way, in an effective way to keep the beer cold, but no one was telling the story. I absolutely believe all of our competitors have a lot of great people who work at their offices. Of course they do. But they weren’t telling that story, and that’s a really important story to tell, that these pieces of equipment aren’t just appearing out of thin air. There’s really talented people who make these things happen, and we believe ours are some of the most talented, greatest people out there, so it was a great story to tell, that people wanted to hear. 

Carman Pirie: Well, let’s talk about it, then. Let’s dive into how you’ve activated that strategy and kind of brought it to life. What were some of the building blocks of it? 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, so I worked largely with our head of our factory, and brought the idea to him one day and said, “You know, do you have some people who’d be up for interview and don’t mind being on camera and answering a few questions?” And he brought me a list of five individuals who he said, “You know, these people not only are just great candidates, but they’re excited to do it, so yeah, let’s get them on camera.” 

And we worked with our video and photography partner, and I crafted a list of questions, and then we interviewed each of these five individuals, and each of them did it in maybe two takes. It flowed so naturally, because these people are so legitimately excited about what they do, and they’re excited about the people they work with, and the most compelling pieces of information I got weren’t even necessarily them talking about themselves or their jobs, but they’re talking about the people they work with, and the community we’ve created at Mark VII, and how it’s such a team atmosphere. That was the part that really surprised me and came back around to be the most compelling piece of the entire campaign, and that’s why we were able to use it beyond your standard marketing, as part of almost like a recruiting tool. 

We pulled the video together. We did photo shoots with each of them. Got a great deal of B roll, just let them kind of go back to their job and just, “Don’t mind us, we’ll just be shooting video around you.” And from there it was all about editing it down to these individual videos of each person. Then we did a full video, featuring everyone together, and that one largely talked about this idea that we’re a team here at Mark VII. I think video is a great core piece of marketing in 2019 and moving forward, and then once you create that video, it’s all about how you disseminate it in the most efficient, effective way, so we created advertisements featuring these people that always led back to our landing page, where you could watch the video, read the story about the person, and from there it was just hitting the right channels with this campaign. That being social, e-newsletters, where we have ads in them, display advertising, even some Google AdWords behind and hitting all the right channels, so that we could really maximize this campaign and get as many eyes on it as possible. 

Carman Pirie: And did you also do some of it surrounding your trade show presence with this, as well? 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. We were at The Car Wash Show earlier this year, and we had a massive video wall, and we showed a video of cars going through one of our pieces of tunnel equipment, but every ten minutes we’d loop in a video from the people campaign, and it really resonated with people, because again, no one else was showing the people from their factory who are making these car washes come to life, but we really wanted to highlight that. 

And I mean externally, it’s been fantastic, and internally, people are excited to get some recognition and show they do care. We’re being featured. We’re part of this greater presence in this car wash community, and someone who’s spending their entire day welding in our fabrication is now seen all over, and that’s a pretty exciting thing. 

Announcer: If you’re a B2B business, don’t let the label distract you from the fact that ultimately, you’re not selling to companies. You’re still selling to people. Understanding who those people are and how best to reach them should be the cornerstone of your digital marketing strategy. We’ve created the B2B buyer persona template, to help you combine demographics, psychographics, and firmographics, to triangulate your ideal buyers. Download it now at bit.ly/b2btemplate. That’s B-I-T.ly/b2btemplate. 

Jeff White: Have you found, I’ve had an opportunity to do a lot of these kinds of photoshoots of people, and bringing people to life within campaigns, but usually not in this full context, but I mean there’s always people like, “No, no. I don’t want my photo taken or anything like that. I don’t want to be…” People are just camera shy. But have you found that since doing that with that initial batch of five, that more people have come forward and wanted to be featured?

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah. That actually has happened, and we are gonna do a second round of the people campaign in 2020, and it’ll be more from the factory, and then we’re also gonna get people out in the field involved, as well. That’s, as I said, people in the factory are getting excited and appreciated. We have a huge network of service technicians, install technicians, salespeople, chemical technicians, across the US-Canada, and we want to get them involved, and they’re seeing what’s happening at the factory and like, “Hey.” They put their hand up like, “Hey, I want to do that, too.” So, we’re really gonna make this a widespread campaign that not just shows the factory, but it’s going to be across all aspects of what Mark VII does, and really kind of bring it full circle next year. 

Carman Pirie: I really like that idea of bringing the people that actually are service side, on customer site, into the campaign. I guess it just resonates with me. I have a bit of a former life in the utilities sector, and one thing about power companies is most every consumer loves to hate them, but they all have a huge amount of sympathy, empathy, and love for the linesmen. 

Jeff White: Respect. 

Carman Pirie: Or the linespeople, I should say. So, you know, it’s been a tried and true technique of utilities is to focus on those people, to try to drive a bit of a human face to something that can seem big and kind of corporate and all powerful to a consumer. So, I’m kind of curious to see the impact of those customer-facing people being brought. 

Jeff White: Well, and that’s particularly relevant here, too, because those people are more likely to have interacted in some way, shape, or form with the people who are buying the car washes. 

Carman Pirie: Indeed. 

Jeff White: So, they’ll have potentially even more of a connection with the service folks and the installers and sales team. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, that’s absolutely true, and I mean these people out in the field, I mean they’re on call holidays, weekends, whatever. You know, a car wash goes down on a Saturday, that’s the biggest day for the car wash owner, so we gotta get that up and running as fast as we can, so it’s really important to show how hard these technicians are working out in the field at all hours, and going above and beyond all the time. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, and to show that they get that. They get that Saturday is the most important day. Things like that. That would be important. I’m curious, because a lot of these channels, of course, be it social, or display, or you mentioned paid search, et cetera, that you would have been using these channels I’m assuming before this campaign, just supporting other creative that perhaps wasn’t as people-focused. So, what’s been the change there? Have you seen increased engagement, increased click throughs, et cetera?

Luke Schoenbeck: Oh yeah. That was, so as a marketer, I think there’s a certain subset out there who’s not as interested in those measurables, those ROIs, but everything I want to do, I want to see tangible results. So, I was really excited when this idea came through, and then we saw those results happening, and our engagement increasing rapidly. So, for example, we advertise in e-newsletters to several vendors in the car wash industry, and we switched the graphics up from previously, we were kind of the standard pictures of our equipment, to pictures of people from our factory, with the tagline, “Get to know us.” And so, that welder again, for example, his name’s Cody, and Cody powers clean cars, and a nice picture of him smiling, with his welding helmet on his head, and it said, “Get to know us.” 

And as soon as we launched that in our e-newsletters, our clicks tripled leading people back to our website, and our conversions then therefore also tripled. People filling out contact forms, wanting to get to know us. So, just one example that was exceptional. 

And again, in our display advertising, similar results. We found some really unique information based on the results, that if it was someone who had never heard of us, never been to our website before, images of car wash equipment resonated more, but if they were a returning user, those people campaign images basically doubled that traffic, getting returning users back to our site. So, the message was fairly clear to me, it’s after they’ve heard of Mark VII, they know what we are, that more emotional appeal is really what can bring people back, knowing that we’re not just a machine. There are people here working, and working hard, doing a great job, and they’re more likely to be interested in hearing those stories. 

Carman Pirie: That’s a really interesting nugget that our listeners can take from this, I think, Luke, as we just… I mean, both Jeff and I just kind of looked at each other with like, “Ah, okay.” So, kind of what you’re saying here is in that early awareness stage, we still need to know who Mark VII is and what it is you do, so we can’t kind of… We can’t put that behind the curtain too much. We can’t bring our people front and center and kind of take the equipment out of it entirely, because of course at that point, they don’t even know what we do. But then, but once there’s been some initial level of awareness built, and we’re looking to deepen that engagement, and move maybe more through to evaluation stages of the purchase cycle or what have you, then doubling down on the people focus is what makes sense. Is that what you’re telling me from the data?

Luke Schoenbeck: Yes. Absolutely true. I mean, so we’re relatively new to the auto dealer segment, so if you go into… If you go to a convenience store with a car wash, or a car wash operator, and you say Mark VII, pretty fair chance they’ll know who we are. If you go to an auto dealer, just about a zero percent chance that they know who Mark VII is at this point. As I said, it’s a new segment for us, so that was really critical for us, the learning about that auto dealer segment, that they need to see the equipment. They need to know what the heck Mark VII is before they can really tie that emotional appeal to it and say, “Okay, now you know what the equipment is, so here’s why we’re great. We have these people who are doing amazing things.” 

Jeff White: Well, and I remember you mentioning, too, that the benefit is a bit different for an auto dealer versus a convenience store or a car wash operator, in that they’re looking to save time and money, and not having to manually wash the cars that come into the dealership for service, whereas the others are making money specifically from the car wash. Is that right? 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, that’s very true. They’re more about that cost saving aspect, whereas maximizing revenue is what’s most important for the convenience stores and the operator. But what’s beautiful about the people campaign is it really works in all three of our segments. You can tell that great human story, really regardless of who your segment is, because that’s something that can hit everybody. You know, we’re in B2B marketing, but I think as you guys just said earlier, you’re talking to people, so at the end of the day, those emotional appeals work almost no matter who you are. 

Carman Pirie: I like that, and I love this notion of everybody in convenience stores knows us. I mean, we can probably kind of trade on that brand reputation a bit, and almost bring the people very much early on in anything that we do, whereas over here on the auto dealer side, we need to lead on the equipment, at least a little bit, to build awareness, and so it’s just basically I think an interesting little tactical bit of guidance when somebody’s building this out in their own world. Do the people I’m advertising to, they really know who we are yet? Or do I need to establish that before I can kind of come in on this other angle? 

Luke, I wonder, beyond the marketing, as we look at HR and the impacts there, have those been as easy to quantify? I guess my assumption is probably not, but what signs are you seeing there that this is having an impact that cascades beyond marketing?

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, so from the human resources perspective, from a recruitment perspective, we haven’t really tried to quantify that piece, but we have a careers page, and we feature this people campaign story on it, so it’s a nice piece that when I’ve looked at the other, our competitors’ careers pages, they don’t have that there. So, as I said, we haven’t quantified it yet, but it’s certainly an upside if you look at our careers page versus a competitor’s. Like, “Okay, they seem to care about their employees.” So, I like having that touch. 

From the morale standpoint, the people who are already a part of the company, as I said, it’s been huge. Knowing that they’re appreciated. Once we get them in the door, that see, look at all this effort we put into showing how great you guys are. So, not quantified yet, at least on the recruiting side, but certainly seeing the impact of it on the people who are here at the factory. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, and certainly the team cohesiveness side of it would be something that you’d feel more qualitatively, I would think. Have you considered integrating salespeople at all into this campaign? 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, that’s another piece that I think, I’m hoping we’ll do, that’ll be a piece of it next year, so I really want to focus, as I said, install, service, chemical, but the salespeople who are in most ways the face of the company, I mean sales and service, they’re the ones out there, boots on the ground talking to people, so I’d love to include one of our sales team members in the 2020 campaign, as well. 

Jeff White: From the sales perspective, and not so much about including them in the campaign, but more from their impression of the campaigns and the kinds of leads that it’s brought into Mark VII, what’s been their feedback about the leads that you and your team in the marketing department have brought them? 

Luke Schoenbeck: A lot of excitement I would say. They were as surprised as everyone else was, like, “Hey, we’ve never seen this angle before. This is different.” And anything that makes their life easier, that just gets us more attention, the brand awareness, the lead gen, they get really excited about, so when the leads… They start seeing an uptick in those cold leads coming in through our website that they weren’t getting before, they get really excited about that, as any salesperson would. 

Carman Pirie: It’s interesting, Luke. I like talking to marketers who are just kind of coming off of a… This was an idea that you had a year or so ago, and had to take some time to get buy-in, and then, and implementing it is a bit like believing in religion here a bit. You know, you had to believe that focusing on people was going to have that engagement impact. You couldn’t kind of prove that in advance. So, I like that we’re talking after, whether it’s been a homerun, or a standup triple, I’m not sure which, but it seems like it’s done fairly well so far. So, I’m curious. If you had to do it all over again, if you were talking to yourself a year ago, is there anything you’d do differently? Do you think you did anything wrong in this first year? That you maybe could have gotten a little bit more results had you tweaked something else?

Luke Schoenbeck: Oh, that’s a good question. I sometimes get a little excited and run before walking, so we probably could have tightened up the processes a little bit. I mean, it was all new for us, but going in, we probably could have saved some time. We did a professional photoshoot along with the videography, and you know, some of those pieces ended up being a little redundant. We didn’t need everything we put together. You pay for everything, regardless of if you use it or not, so taking a step back and saying like, “Okay, what of this will be the most effective pieces for us? What could we maybe save a little bit of that budget on between the photography and some of the other smaller details we put into place?” And maybe been a little more agile with it, but I get excited when there’s a big idea that I think will have a big impact, and I’m occasionally, to my own detriment, I have a lot of leeway and I can just kind of run with a lot of projects. And you learn as you go sometimes, and as I said, this was our first try at it, so there certainly were areas where we could have been more efficient in it. 

But you know, it’s the first time, so you learn, and then in 2020 when we do it again, we’ll have those processes tightened up. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, I really appreciate that answer. I think that there was a lot of honesty in that answer. But you know, I could see a little bit of myself in that, like yeah, sometimes you sacrifice a little bit of precision and efficiency for speed sometimes, and I don’t know, I think that was probably a pretty good tradeoff, if I had to look at it from a kind of third-party, outside looking in. 

Jeff White: Especially if you’re tripling conversion, you know. “Oh, crap. We spent a few thousand extra on photography and video, but you know, I think it’ll be alright in the end.” 

Carman Pirie: Yeah. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think there are too many marketers out there who want too much of a perfectionist. You know, I think if you get a project 90 to 95% of the way to where you want, you launch, you go. Because waiting for that extra 5%, if you lose two or three months, that’s gonna hurt your bottom line in the end, really. You’re gonna lose a lot of potential leads, which you know, the longer you take to get them into your sales funnel, the longer you take to get that revenue back in the end. So, if you get it close, you’re probably good enough to launch, and then you can pivot from there and learn from what you’re doing. 

Carman Pirie: And there seems to be a compounding effect that happens with those two or three month delays that happen time and time again, on project after project, and then before you know it, as an organization it feels like you’re a decade behind everybody else.

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah. Absolutely. 

Carman Pirie: A decade behind probably became two or three months at a time. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah. If it happens over and over again, you waste, you can waste a year, you know?

Carman Pirie: Well, this has been a great chat, Luke. I wonder if you had any kind of parting advice for our listeners as we kind of wrap up here? And if not, I’d be curious just as you look to 2020 and beyond, what kind of has you excited as you look beyond the people campaign? 

Luke Schoenbeck: Parting advice, I would say don’t be afraid to try something that hasn’t been done before, because you’ll learn from it whether it’s a success or a failure. So yeah, we wanted to show off the people in our factory, and that hadn’t been done, and it was a great success for us, but I was willing to roll the dice on that one, and I think it’s really important that as marketers we try different angles, because we can learn from each other and really grow a lot when we do those things. 

And then for 2020, I’m excited about where video is headed, and pieces of virtual reality, and all these other things that are becoming really more robust, and finding ways to use them as marketers that can move that ROI and just do unique things that attract our audience. Yeah. It’s gonna be a lot of fun exploring those areas. 

Carman Pirie: I think we’re still seeing some interesting explorations there. We had a, exploring a case study in ABM the other day, where somebody’d used a augmented reality app to show what was an innovative product in a space, to show it in situ, in client environments, and just how that helped drive just ridiculous ROI on a display campaign, at a time when a lot of people think digital display is almost dead, right?

Jeff White: Should be noted, too, that that was in convenience stores as a customer if I recall correctly, too.

Carman Pirie: Yeah, that’s true. 

Jeff White: Yeah. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, so I think you’re right to be excited about that. I think we still have a lot more… It’s funny, because we’ve been talking about video and things like it to be the next big thing for the last 10 years, but I think there’s still a lot for us to learn as marketers of how we can get the most out of it. 

Jeff White: I think we just need more opportunities to put multicolored foam on stuff. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Yeah. You know, people get excited about that. It’s a unique little thing in our industry, but it’s fun. 

Carman Pirie:  Have you considered a multicolored foam strategy? 

Luke Schoenbeck: I’m not sure what other industries we can bring that to, but it works for us in car wash. 

Carman Pirie: You know, I think there’s probably something to be learned there, too. Somebody listening to this podcast could be like, “Hmm. Not multicolored foam, but-“

Jeff White: But… Yeah. That’s messy in a lot of other industries. Yeah. 

Carman Pirie: Luke, thanks so much for sharing your expertise and insights on The Kula Ring today. It’s been a pleasure. 

Luke Schoenbeck: Oh, thank you guys. It was a lot of fun. 

Jeff White: Thank you. Announcer: Thanks for listening to The Kula Ring with Carman Pirie and Jeff White. Don’t miss a single manufacturing marketing insight. Subscribe now at kulapartners.com/thekularing. That’s K-U-L-Apartners.com/thekularing.