The Kula Ring podcast is essential listening for manufacturing marketers who want to grow their digital presence and compete online.
Sponsored by Kula Partners—an agency committed to helping leading B2B manufacturers craft digital experiences that transform how they engage buyers, serve customers, and outpace their competition—The Kula Ring podcast features conversations about marketing, sales, and technology with top manufacturing executives from across North America.
The Kula Ring podcast is co-hosted by Kula Partners principals, Carman Pirie and Jeff W. White, both of whom are frequently sought after for their digitally-focused B2B expertise. They regularly share their insights with audiences including conferences like B2B Online and HubSpot’s INBOUND, the Gardner Manufacturing Marketer blog, and other podcasts focused on B2B marketing and technology.
The stats around video consumption grow exponentially each year. To what extent should manufacturing marketers care about that? Everyone seems to agree that producing video content should happen and is easier than ever, but taking the plunge feels overwhelming to the point where it doesn’t get done. On this week’s episode of The Kula Ring, Jeff Long, Owner of True Focus Media, shares his approach to developing and distributing industrial marketing video content.
Overcoming Cold Feet When Developing B2B Video Content Transcript:
Announcer: You’re listening to The Kula Ring, a podcast made for manufacturing marketers. Here are Carman Pirie and Jeff White.
Jeff White: Welcome to The Kula Ring, a podcast for manufacturing marketers brought to you by Kula Partners. My name is Jeff White. Joining me today is Carman Pirie. Carman, how you doing, sir?
Carman Pirie: Never better. Never better, Jeff.
Jeff White: Never better.
Carman Pirie: I mean, look.
Jeff White: I bet.
Carman Pirie: Yeah. Why would you complain, really?
Jeff White: Exactly. The weather’s nice. All the things Canadians like.
Carman Pirie: Indeed. Yes, yes. The weather is nice or it’s not so nice. You still get to talk about it, which is the key for Canadians, I think.
Jeff White: Yeah, it is.
Carman Pirie: But look, no, the topic of today’s show, I just feel like we’re gonna be able to, if you will, kind of wring the towel of this topic a little bit, like one of the things that I think happens, and marketers know, every marketer on the planet for the most part wants to look at integrating potentially more video into their mix, et cetera, or they at least have a hunch that it might be a good idea. I’m gonna just… I know that since we’re not recording video today our listeners won’t see me roll my eyes when I say we all have seen the crazy stats that everybody puts out there about how many minutes of video are consumed online.
Frankly, I think that’s a bit misguided. Just because people are consuming video online doesn’t mean they want to consume your video online, so some of those I think-
Jeff White: It also means you have a very crowded marketplace for… what do they call them, eyeballs?
Carman Pirie: Well, if it’s a marketplace for video, then sure, but I think if you have good information you can present it in a lot of different ways. It’ll get consumed. But I guess where I’m going with that is many manufacturing marketers are thinking, “Geez, we’d like to do more. We’d maybe like to figure out how we can even scale it in-house, potentially, or with the staff and team that we already have, or at least a minimal investment in some way.” And everybody knows, oh, we’ve got video cameras on our iPhones or what have you, but then that’s kind of where it falls down and there’s no real kind of like, “Okay, well, how do you action this strategy in a way that can actually begin to put some points on the board?”
So, I’m hopeful that today’s guest can dive into that with us today.
Jeff White: Yeah. No, I’m looking forward to it, as well. Joining us today is Jeff Long. Jeff is the owner of True Focus Media. Welcome to The Kula Ring, Jeff.
Jeff Long: Guys, thank you so much for having me on today.
Jeff White: I’m glad you could be here. And we are talking about video. We don’t record the video of our shows, but Jeff has put Carman and I out of our misery when it comes to designing a set for his recordings. He has great lighting, good contrast. I like it, Jeff. I give it a 10 out of 10.
Jeff Long: Thank you. I mean, I did all this so just the two of you could appreciate this. None of our listeners. They’re not allowed. But just you two guys can enjoy it.
Carman Pirie: I feel like we’re kind of like a radio baseball announcer and we’re trying to now give the visual to what’s going on, as well.
Jeff White: Need to be better storytellers.
Carman Pirie: Indeed, indeed. Well, look, Jeff, why don’t we kind of kick things underway by just telling us a bit about the firm and kind of what you’ve been up to, like kind of what makes you tick?
Jeff Long: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks again for having me on. So, Jeff Long with True Focus Media, and I started the company in 2003, so we’ve been around for a couple minutes now, and based here in Ohio, so work with a lot of manufacturing and industrial companies here in the Midwest, and beyond. And when I created the company, we were just a video marketing company. We didn’t do the website design or some of the eLearning projects that we do now, but that was actually before YouTube was a thing. We were kind of DVDs were the new thing, right? So, we’d go around and make these videos and DVD delivery was part of one of the distribution strategies. That was kind of the hot new thing, which is funny to look back on, but it’s been-
Jeff White: Oh, man. You’re just reminding me, and I hate to interrupt, but you’re reminding me of those DVD business cards. Remember those things?
Jeff Long: Yes. Oh, yeah.
Jeff White: They didn’t fit in any kind of DVD player unless it had a spindle, otherwise they would just jam up. Yeah. But that was video.
Carman Pirie: But they were a good idea, apparently.
Jeff White: Yeah. You were differentiating yourself.
Jeff Long: Right. Right. Yeah. I think it was the cool factor, right, which even now I think some companies go more after the cool factor than maybe the content factor or the customer-centric factor, which we can talk about later.
And so, yeah, when we were just kind of doing the video stuff I had two partners at the time, and we would just kind of listen to what our clients wanted, right? So, they’d say, “Hey, Jeff. Can you do this? Can we put this video on our website or do this type of marketing?” We would accommodate this as much as possible. I think in marketing it’s a lot of experimentation. It’s a lot of trial and error, finding out what works, what the companies want, and go from there, and that’s one of the reasons why I’ve been successful these past 19 years.
Carman Pirie: And I’m assuming that iteration is what led you to this notion of creating kind of value via video in shall we say bite-sized snippets? Would that be accurate?
Jeff Long: Exactly. And that’s a good way to look at it, is… You know, my parents are both teachers. Lifelong educators. Back when I was in high school I considered going into secondary education. I love teaching, training, but I didn’t go that route obviously, and then I did a bunch of corporate training with Lowe’s, so I got to go all across the country and in Canada, as well. Got to go to Hawaii, Alaska, some fun places, some boring places, so I look at video content not as how to wow people, right? We talked about those old school DVD business cards. That was kind of the wow factor.
I look at it more as how can we educate people with, like you said, that bite-sized content. And that’s really what I’m seeing is becoming expected by our customers, buyers, distributors, anybody that touches these products that our companies are working with.
Carman Pirie: All right. Well, let’s peel that back a bit. I guess when you’re working with a B2B manufacturing organization, I know that that’s a pretty broad category if it’s a category at all, but I guess what shape do these types of programs take? How are they taking advantage of this and how is it coming to life for their customers?
Jeff Long: Yeah, so let me kind of tell you a story of maybe why I created this video value bomb service, and my goal here today on your show is really to give the listener some strategies, tips, and tools, so that if they have the personnel in-house that they can do it themselves, right? That’s kind of the goal is to give back on this.
So, it really got me thinking. As I try to look back on my career, I look back at what’s working, I look at other industries, and like I said, I’ve been doing video for 19 years, and we get a lot of requests for companies to do these big ‘About Us’ videos. Again, the wow factor, and I think those are fine. I think those are great. But let’s be honest, how do you tie ROI to an ‘About Us’ video? It’s really hard. And so, that was one key factor, and then the other key factor is just asking both my clients and people, smart people like you guys, and others, like, “Okay, when you’re looking for a product, does a company history video, or ‘About Us’ video, or whatever, does that really move the needle in your buying decision?”
And I found that it really didn’t a whole lot. Now, I think there’s a time and a place for these wow factors. You know, when you’re rolling out a big product, or a trade show when you’re trying to impress people, totally get that. So, I don’t want to discourage people, but a lot of times companies… That’s kind of all they thought about with video, is, “Hey, we need to talk about ourselves and that’s gonna somehow impress somebody so much that they’re gonna buy from us.” And again, that could happen, so I was thinking, “Okay, what’s the other side of that coin?”
Well, being kind of this educator-based marketing guy that I am, what value can we create that will be so beneficial that that potential buyer, customer, whoever they are, would buy the products from this company? So, that’s kind of the genesis of these video value bombs, is it’s more customer-centric. What’s the customer wanting to know, asking what problems are they trying to solve, and then let’s create a solution around those things that they’re wondering.
Carman Pirie: So, is this typically like product use-cases, things of that nature? Or are we doing things like even addressing buying objections or…
Jeff Long: It’s all of those. That’s the beauty, right? We have a content roadmap of okay, company X or Y or Z, here’s what we recommend. Month one, month two, et cetera. But let’s slow down. What’s already working? So, I always ask people, okay, let’s look at your top blog post. Maybe you do have existing videos, whitepapers, spec sheets, some of your top downloads. What’s working? So, I call those your unicorns. Let’s look at your unicorns that are outperforming your other content and let’s start creating more short video content around your unicorns. So, that’s one successful strategy.
The other, like you mentioned, is common questions that your customers have. So, ask each of your departments from buying, to customer service, to sales, to all of it, what are these top questions that people are asking? And make a short video on each one. Put it online and you’re gonna capture some of that content and now you’re replicating yourself 24/7.
Jeff White: Jeff, what are you doing from a distribution point of view? I mean, we all know LinkedIn, and YouTube, and then some of the other social channels, but what… How are you shaping where you’re putting these and how are you helping your clients decide where to go?
Jeff Long: Yeah, so it’s a couple things. First, I’ll start big and then we’ll kind of narrow down, so first of all I have a list of 40 different places that a company can consider posting these videos every month, and I say consider because I never want to overwhelm people, right? I don’t think it’s… I mean, to a sense it is a shotgun approach, but let’s start with the top couple that make sense, right? So, of course your website and YouTube and LinkedIn, those are kind of the top three that I recommend. But even places like your email signature, right? If your company has 50, 100-plus, 1,000 employees, whatever that is, maybe some of your key executives have a little blurb in their email signature. Hey, check out our latest video value bomb where we answer your top questions, or whatever that might be.
Or, a lot of manufacturers and B2B companies have either email newsletters or some type of e-blast, right? Again, why not have a little blurb there that promotes some of these video value bombs that you’re putting out? All that to say we look at where are your ideal customers already, what are some opportunities that your competitors aren’t taking advantage of, and we strategically map out distribution channels based on that.
Carman Pirie: I want to kind of dig into that notion of what works and what doesn’t a little bit, just simply because I think one thing that kind of can sometimes frustrate manufacturing marketers is that frankly it’s the hardworking content that actually works. It’s the spec sheets. It’s that gritty, that doesn’t necessarily have much creative writing flair requirement. It has technical accuracy that’s certainly required. Does that square with your experience, as well, that often it’s that hardworking and maybe even a little boring content that tends to be the most consumed?
Jeff Long: Yeah, for B2B industrial manufacturing, for sure. A lot of the engineers are consuming that content. But we also have to look at who the decision-makers are, of course, but also who the influencers are, so maybe it is that engineer that’s influencing the executive. Maybe it’s somebody on the shop floor. Maybe it’s sales. Who knows? So, yeah, I think some of these more dry pieces of content are valuable. I don’t want to say they’re not. But we just look at most people, and I’ve asked a wide range of people. Most people would rather consume a video maybe even before they read that whitepaper, spec sheet, whatever, so maybe it’s a both/and versus replacing, so just test that out. And I’ve had some people say, “Jeff, I’d much rather read that spec sheet, that whitepaper, that whatever.” Okay, that’s fine. To me this is not a one-size-fits-all.
Carman Pirie: No, I think that’s just the interesting kind of juxtaposition of it all, is that I think sometimes manufacturing marketers look at it and say, “You know, the content that really pulls is this technical, very specific information,” and they maybe are thinking in their mind that video is where I go when I’m looking to add a little sizzle to the steak. I’m looking to add a little sex to this. In some ways, I’m kind of wondering if that makes us look past video opportunities that may be in some ways the most impactful, like how do you take that… It’s not about taking hardworking what others might think is boring content and making it sexy, but it’s like how do you actually use video just to make that hardworking content work even harder? And I don’t get a sense that a lot of people are really knocking on that door. I don’t know, what do you guys think?
Jeff White: One kind of further to that that I would have is like is there an opportunity when making something that is just hardworking, “boring” content sexier through different types of media like video? Is there an opportunity to do that?
Carman Pirie: I guess what I’m saying is that I’m not even sure that we want to make it sexier through video. I’m more saying video shouldn’t be just the “let’s make it sexier” tool.
Jeff White: No, no.
Carman Pirie: So, it’s like kind of interesting to imagine.
Jeff Long: Yeah, I love this discussion, and I’ve found that… I’m trying to think here to quantify this. I’ll say most, because that’s pretty nebulous, right? Most companies I’ve worked with have some technical documents, whitepapers, whatever we want to call them, but they probably don’t have enough, and the reason I say that is one of the stats I love is Gartner Research recently came out and said that 72% of B2B buyers will fully do their research online before reaching out to a salesperson. So, I always ask the companies I work with. Do you have enough content that your ideal customers will consume before reaching out to sales or whoever?
So, again, I don’t think it’s an either/or. I think it’s a multitude of content. I think younger demographics, as millennials become of age and become more decision-makers and influencers, they’re expecting more video content. So, one way around that is to interview engineers or these key people that have a lot of this technical know-how. That way, again, it’s kind of this both/and, right? So, we can interview them on something like this, or Zoom, create the article with them, as well as that video, spruce up the video a little bit to make it a little more engaging. Again, we’re not trying to make it some TikTok video. It’s engaging but it’s not gonna get millions of views. Potentially might, but probably not.
And then you have both, and I think that’s one benefit of creating content is the ‘both’. That’s a keyword, is ‘both’.
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Carman Pirie: I’m curious. What are you seeing inside of marketing organizations that are taking this work on internally? Everybody likes to talk about the democratization of being able to have video cameras in your pockets, et cetera. I guess are you seeing a lot of that? Marketing teams really taking on that kind of DIY type of video?
Jeff Long: Some. For sure, there’s some. And specifically with more industrial or these manufacturing companies. Yes, there are these industry leaders, and it’s easy to say, “Well, they have the budget for that or the personnel to do that.” Well, they had to have the budget allocated, right? They had to have the people dedicated. You gotta start somewhere. So, yes, there are some, however, that’s why I created this video value bomb service was to either do it for people, or teach them how, but again, I think we can encourage them to do it on their own.
A lot of it is finding those key topics, common questions. How do we interview our salespeople? Our engineers? Our executives? And get the information that’s in their head, or maybe it’s on a blog post, and get that into something a little more engaging, which might be a short video series on those topics.
Jeff White: I think it’s great, and it makes a ton of sense to be looking for those opportunities, and what content is already resonating, and using that as a basis for at least your initial content calendar. You may find you want to go elsewhere after you’ve sort of explored all those ideas, but as Carman’s mentioning, the democratization of content and everyone having a 4K video camera in their pocket, and a full studio, not even really realizing it or taking advantage of it. What do they do next? Because I think a lot of people sort of feel, “Oh, I can do this with my phone, but it’s gonna be really low-budget feeling, or I’m gonna have to spend a whole bunch of money to set up something I don’t really understand how to use.” How do you help people decide where to go with that? Because it’s a continuum.
Jeff Long: It really is, and I think one of the benefits of YouTube, and especially now Instagram, and TikTok, and all the other video options out there, is when I started, a company had to have premium level content. High quality. Every word had to be scripted and perfect. Every shot had to be perfect. And again, there’s a time and a place for that. 100%. But more of us expect almost that, like you mentioned Jeff, that authenticity in content. So, yeah, we do have the capability of almost doing our own podcast on our phone, or our own videos on our phones, or there’s Zoom and other platforms, but most companies aren’t still doing that. Even though it’s simple, even though it’s in our hands, in our pockets, on our computer, it’s still not happening as fast as other industries are latching on.
And so, I think that excites me. I think that’s where the opportunities are. So, it’s like okay, for these manufacturing companies, many are doing this. Most are not. But the industry leaders that are doing it… One of the reasons they’re the industry leaders, of course their high-quality products, and people, and that’s the cornerstone, but they’re getting that attention, the eyeballs, the engagement partly because they have a lot of video content. So, a lot of it is kind of preaching to the masses like in these podcasts, right? It’s trying to encourage people. You can do it. You can do it yourself. You can hire an expert to do it or whatever but try to get in the game. And that’s my encouragement.
Anything you do and start out with, it’s gonna be kind of crappy. Let’s be honest. So, get that out of the way. Get your reps in and it’ll get better.
Carman Pirie: It’s interesting, though, to your point. I mean, it’s not for a lack of technology. It’s not for a lack of options. It’s not for a lack of access. But yet it’s still not particularly common in many categories. So, what’s the biggest thing that stands in the way, then? Because I mean it’s like video doesn’t need a lot of PR. People… My goodness. There’s lots of chat about how great video is for marketers, right?
Jeff White: Eight out of 10 sessions at Inbound this year are about video, probably.
Carman Pirie: Yeah, probably, so it’s like so what do you think stands in the way of internal marketing organizations getting more serious about this?
Jeff Long: Yeah. I think it’s a lot of the companies I work with, even some of the larger companies, is they have a lot of mandates of different content they’re trying to create. They have hundreds or thousands of products and SKUs they’re trying to represent, or sell, or distribute, whatever. So, there’s just a lot of noise, right? And so, it’s trying to figure out do we write blog articles, or do we do social, or video, or pod… What do we do? And again, I think it’s experimentation. I think with videos, you can create articles out of videos, so it’s kind of a two for one. I talk a lot about content multiplication.
So, once you have a video, you can have an article. You can have some graphics that represent some of that article. A lot of it’s getting started. But I find that these companies are overwhelmed, and so yeah, they could do it. They just don’t have the time, expertise, or desire maybe sometimes. You know, they feel intimidated. It can feel awkward to be in front of the camera. Even I feel that at times. I have to kind of amp up and that’s normal. So, there’s a lot of factors. That’s a good question.
Carman Pirie: Yeah. I’m kind of curious. I think my hunch is that fear of failure is playing a bigger role than we-
Jeff White: Is that because people just don’t like to see themselves on camera other than Instagram influencers?
Jeff Long: I think that’s a lot of it. Yeah. And one of the benefits or some is with sales, right? A lot of salespeople, their commissions are tied to their job a lot of times, so they are more incentivized to be on camera, plus they’re used to kind of speaking and having excitement in other things, so they typically are more inclined to be… I hate to use the word influencer. I usually tell people, “Hey, showcase your expertise,” because we all have expertise. Why not showcase it? But most people are intimidated to turn on that camera, whatever the camera looks like, and talk.
And lastly, to me that’s one of the benefits of education-focused marketing, right? I don’t have to worry about speaking to perfection. I’m gonna say a lot of ums, and ahs, and stumble, but I can teach people. I can showcase my expertise and that’s of value. Not a perfect delivery because I’m gonna stumble every time.
Carman Pirie: Yeah. I think that’s great advice to actually coach people through that fear of failure. I don’t know that… Yeah, it’s interesting. The fear of public speaking is ubiquitous, and this is I think an extension of that. Also, part for smaller marketing teams, having that idea sometimes means the VP of marketing thinking, “That’s gonna be me on camera.” And therefore, that means my potential career failure could be televised. I guess that’s an interesting thought. When a company’s starting to really double down to increase their video production, how much risk do you think there is in the who you choose? I’m just thinking about… Well, you know, we just live in a weird time where anybody ends up charged with X, Y, or Z, and that can easily come back to the company in five seconds or less, right? Like a social media footprint, et cetera, right? You see where I’m going?
Jeff Long: Sure. And I think most of the companies I work with are aggressive in their marketing but in a way they’re still playing it safe, right? There are some companies out there doing some crazy funny, or cutting-edge, or edgy type of content. There could be a risk factor there. But I never want to put my clients or the companies I work with in that position. Again, I think if we’re teaching people and if we have the best intentions overall, that’s going to work. Of course, almost anybody can get sued these days.
I guess I wouldn’t let that stop me.
Carman Pirie: Yeah. Yeah. No, I guess where I was going with that is more like the selection of the who’s gonna be on camera for the company.
Jeff Long: Sure. We did a big video project several years ago, almost had it complete, and I got an email from the marketing manager. “Hey, Jeff. You know that HR person that’s in most of these videos? Well, she resigned, and we need to take her out.” And it’s like, “Okay, how are we gonna patch these holes?”
Jeff White: It’s the HR resignation filter in Premiere.
Jeff Long: There we go. There we go. Right.
Carman Pirie: But it’s an interesting challenge, I think, for a lot of especially more midsize or smaller manufacturers, because they would look at this and may say… I can hear the narrative now. Well, if we’re gonna do video we should probably get somebody younger that knows how to do this stuff. And then the next thing out of their mind is, “When was the last time somebody younger stayed with us for any longer than 24 months?” And then what? Yeah, so-
Jeff White: Maybe that’s a reason, though, to be making content like Jeff’s talking about that isn’t really tied to the personality of the person and is more tied to the unicorn pieces of content. Then it doesn’t matter if Jimmy leaves, or Ruth leaves, or whatever. You’re still happy with the messaging of the piece.
Jeff Long: You read my mind. It’s almost like the more content you have out there with more diverse voices, faces, et cetera, then in a way it doesn’t really matter, because you can just take out 10% of your videos if whoever resigns, and technically… I mean, you should always have releases. Consult your lawyer. Releases by each person so that if they do leave the company, I would imagine you still can use those videos. Again, not a lawyer, but yeah, so again, I would just… I look at the industry experts that are out there that are doing this video content, specifically in manufacturing, and they’re just going full steam ahead, right?
Not to say we shouldn’t consider the legalities in some of these other things, of course, but yeah, good discussion.
Carman Pirie: And those legalities need to be managed. And to your point, there’s lots of ways to manage them. So, at the risk of being the perennial devil’s advocate in today’s show, it kind of flies a bit in the face of the recommendation, though, to be authentic. Yes, you could have 100 different people on the videos and all 100 people be authentic, so yes, that’s still not terrible advice, but we do see some manufacturers, some whom we’ve had on the show come to mind, who have a strong video strategy. Man, an awful lot of times it’s really tied to one strong personality too, and frankly, I think that the authenticity of that personality, building an audience over time, is in part in the couple of cases that I’ve been thinking of, is in part what drove the success of those initiatives.
Had they tried to shoot the same 100 videos with 100 different people versus the one, I think they’d have gotten a different result.
Jeff Long: Definitely. Yeah. I mean, we did a two-year cycle with STOBER Drives. They’re based out of Kentucky. And wonderful company, down-to-earth, hardworking. I mean, I always tell people if I lived near that area, I’d probably work for them just because they’re so fantastic. And so, of all the videos we did over that two-year span, we cycled through people. Or I should say we included lots of people because we wanted that diversity of voices and people. So, it wasn’t just sales, or executives, or whatever. And some of them were voluntold, right? “Hey, you need to be on this video,” and different things.
And one of the skillsets I bring is making people feel comfortable and confident on camera, because it’s a very awkward experience to be like, “All right, say some stuff. Go.” You know, so we have different ways to make people feel comfortable, not freaking out, and that’s the beauty of editing, right? We only keep the good stuff. Make them look amazing. But let’s be honest. Hardly anybody likes how they look or sound on video. I don’t and most people don’t either. So, I just get over it. I’m like, “Well, other people have given me compliments, so maybe they like it more than me. I’m making my videos for them, not for me, so get over it.”
Carman Pirie: Yeah. Absolutely.
Jeff White: I’m wondering, what are you seeing as the next thing, Jeff? Where’s video taking you next that it didn’t take you before?
Jeff Long: I think that’s a great question. I think there’s a wide untapped market for eLearning, training, and other types of content there. Again, with micro-content, and there’s different platforms out there. We build eLearning platforms but there’s other options of creating this eLearning portal, both internally for employees, new hires, safety, certifications, other things, as well as your external employees. We’ve had great success with companies that create training systems for their products, for their distributors, for their end-users, and again, safety, setup, usage, that reduces the amount of incoming customer service calls, or clicks, or emails, whatever that is.
It also helps reduce the safety risk, obviously. And then you can even track completion rate on different people, so for employees you could tie bonus or benefits to different learning tracks. And a lot of that, of course, is more video-based. You can do articles and text but it’s less engaging. So, that’s where I think is a tremendous untapped… and it’s not this glamorous, sexy, “Hey, TikTok and all this!” I think there’s some value and I’m not the expert on some of those things, but on this education-based marketing and training, that’s where I shine, and I think that’s where there’s some opportunities.
Carman Pirie: Cool.
Jeff White: That’s really cool.
Carman Pirie: Well, thanks for joining us today. It’s been really great to kick this around and explore almost the never-ending topic, I would say, of video and marketing. It’s been a pleasure, Jeff.
Jeff Long: Well, thank you guys for both having me on. Been having a lot of fun here.
Jeff White: Fantastic. Thanks.
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