Recruitment, Retention, and Purpose in Family-Run ManufacturingRecruitment, Retention, and Purpose in Family-Run Manufacturing

Recruitment, Retention, and Purpose in Family-Run Manufacturing Transcript:

Announcer: You’re listening to The Kula Ring, a podcast made for manufacturing marketers. Here are Carman Pirie and Jeff White. 

Jeff White: Welcome to the Kula Ring, a podcast for manufacturing marketers brought to you by Kula Partners. My name is Jeff White and joining me today is Carman Pirie. Carman, how are you doing, sir?

Carman Pirie: I’m doing well. And you? 

Jeff White: I’m doing great. Recording after a summer hiatus.  

Carman Pirie: Indeed. It’s always nice to get back at it and I’m excited for today’s conversation.

Jeff White: Me too. And I think a lot of the folks that listen to the show and a number of the guests that we’ve had on have certainly fallen into this category, but you know within the context of manufacturing, there’s a lot of small family businesses that are built on manufacturing and it’s an interesting kind of type of company that is probably a little bit, the dynamics are different than many others.

Carman Pirie: Exactly. Different nuances, and different things to consider. And I’m reminded of the way up here in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. We have one of our universities, Dalhousie University, the biggest one in this region. They have a little specialty within their business faculty because, for instance, there are so many businesses. Family-owned businesses here in Atlantic Canada that they, and they recognize that they have kind of unique challenges, not just in succession planning, but in a variety of areas of operations, etc. So they actually developed a center for family business as part of that business faculty at the university. And they’re reminded of that as we introduce today’s guest, that, it’s fairly established understanding that family business is a different ball of wax, as they say. And I guess that’s what we’re trying to peel back today. What are the dynamics of family enterprise and manufacturing?

Jeff White: Yeah absolutely. So joining us today is John Kevin, John works with KK Tool, and he told us before the show that his title is Gopher, and that it encapsulates an awful lot. So John, welcome to The Kula Ring, and can you tell our audience a bit about yourself? And 

Carman Pirie: Jeff, we should mention that he does have a last name. He just happens to have two first names. John Kevin Koehler, I believe, correct? Just to make sure we get a fulsome. 

John Koehler: That’s correct. That’s I am a junior just to be fair. So that’s why I have two first names. So 

Carman Pirie: Welcome to the show. Good, sir. 

John Koehler: Yeah. Thank you. No, thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to it. And I appreciate it. Yeah, I work for KK Tools. I’ve worked full-time now for 12 years and, through high school had the opportunity to be involved. And you mentioned my title of Gopher and I like to look at it as someone in a small family business who gets to be pretty involved. I go for this, I go for that, I go for whatever needs to be done that day. And I enjoy the variety that I get. It is challenging and stressful, but the variety definitely helps keep things moving. 

Carman Pirie: John, of course, the part of that variety that’s interesting to our listeners for sure, is the fact that you tend to lead on the marketing and sales side for the organizations is my understanding. And my guess is if your title is Gopher, that tells me that’s just one of many responsibilities. And would it be fair to say that it maybe hasn’t always been a focus of the company? 

John Koehler: I would definitely agree with that. Being a small family business starting off, you’re taking what’s available to you.

My grandfather’s brother had a shop already going. So they had a little bit of opportunity to learn what he was doing and take on some customers. Springfield, the Midwest in general is a manufacturing hub. So there’s a lot of it going on around here. And, there, there probably was a lot of sales and marketing in the beginning, we had the brochures, we had the things being handed out.

But over, the course of time, if you will, you start to. Generate a customer base, a loyal customer base, if you will, building tools for them, repeat customers coming back being able to provide a quality service to the industry that slowly turned into what we’re doing now, which is contract manufacturing and customers have changed a little bit, but a lot of them were customers that we built tools for in the beginning.

It was a good way to get started. And then they. They see the quality of work you do, and they go, Hey. Can you make a thousand of these really good, for example? And it just grows from there. And again, word of mouth was big. Back in the seventies and eighties, the internet was still young, that’s really how you know how things moved around. There was no, I wouldn’t say there’s really no marketing aspect, but people are sending things through the mail and doing that. And it’s definitely changed a little bit different. And, one thing that I’ve noticed is that word of mouth is not me talking to you anymore. It’s probably more, what am I talking about? So when you look at social media and things like that’s really the word of mouth nowadays is, Hey, look at this cool thing. I saw it could be something as simple as watching a mill just run and make a part within, 30, 40 seconds.

You don’t, somebody sees you do that. Somebody sees the quality of work. I think that’s the new word of mouth. Not that people still aren’t talking about you after, having a customer experience. But being able to get an idea of what you’re doing. And people have been sharing that with, hey, look at this. I think That’s how I’ve approached our marketing a little bit trying to find those eye-catching things, if you will, neat information, new technologies that are coming out that might spark somebody’s interest as just being a neat idea or something that just draws our audience’s attention. Have them look at us. 

Carman Pirie: Let me understand just specifically, what are the types of clients that you’re looking for? The types of organizations that you tend to, that tend to be a good customer for you? 

John Koehler: Sure. Right now, industrial equipment, aerospace and tooling are our three main areas.

Tooling, tooling overlaps with aerospace. We’re still making tooling for the aerospace industry. We’re still making tooling for industrial equipment. Any customer is a good customer. So we don’t make a habit really of ever turning anybody away. One thing that we found is pointing them in the right direction can be beneficial as well.

They might remember you later on. So we, not that I look at everything and quote everything, but I don’t mind grazing my eyes over something if somebody needs some help and going, hey, this might not be a fit for us. But. This is the direction you should go. 

Carman Pirie: As you take on that marketing and sales function for the family business, that’s a lot of pressure.

You could get called to the carpet at Thanksgiving dinner for not producing the proper sales results over the last quarter. It’s going to get a little messy. What have you, do you see any kind of, uh, unique if you will, blockers to growth or challenges there? As you endeavour to maybe bring a bit more rigour to it. And increase the social media presence, et cetera, and modernize KK tools marketing, what’s been the biggest challenge. 

John Koehler: I would say, I would market to employees if they touch on that a little bit. Finding good employees that aren’t going to go away helps my customers see that. Okay. You’re established. There’s not a lot of turnover, because I would say that we just had a meeting with the VP of a very large manufacturer and that’s some of their questions, they’re interested in the viability of the company. If so, are you seeing a lot of turnover? They probably see tribal knowledge as important. If I’m spending a lot of time training people, I’m not spending a lot of time creating good products and stuff like that. So convincing them that we have good employees and a good, established company is definitely a challenge convincing them of that.

And a lot of large manufacturers. I feel like this is me. I don’t know what other people experience, but you are starting to look for companies that can provide that additional service, painting it, coating it and doing things like that. So being able to show them that. We have a management system, albeit we don’t paint here, we have a management system that can handle, coating your part, plating your part, we have respectable suppliers to do so that we’ve worked with for many years being able to convey that to them is probably the most difficult because we are a small business and they look at us that way. So sometimes. Sometimes they question if this project is for you. 

Carman Pirie: yeah, part of recruiting that talent and part of, securing that talent is part of that brand obviously. And part of that is the market presence. People want to work for a company that’s a going concern and has a future. And so it’s interesting to see the marketing of the firm. First and foremost, impacting your ability to attract and retain employees. And the fact that you have tracked and retained employees is what drives your market competitiveness. Yeah. It’s almost like a bit of a Russian doll if you will, 

Jeff White: of employment and recruitment issues.

John Koehler: Yeah. I have nothing to do, I have nothing to market if I don’t have good employees. That’s number one. That’s got to be, in my opinion, that’s got to be the number one priority is making sure that not only can you acquire the talent, but the talent that you acquire is going to help you market your company and be successful in the end and generate word of mouth.

Jeff White: How have you seen that change? Because we’ve certainly, in, in speaking with manufacturers and just experienced living in the world in the last four or five years, how has recruitment changed for you and your team bringing in new people, Pre pandemic to during the pandemic to now, like what’s the different trajectory been there?

John Koehler: Yeah, we, so we have started definitely trying to get in with STEM schools and tech trade schools and things like that to try to find the younger talent the next hurdle is getting them excited about it, right? It was funny, this, the same company that came in recently, once you start getting, giving them an idea of Hey, this is an aircraft flight, this is going to go on an airplane or, this is going to go on, piece of mining equipment, that you’re making, you take pride in what you got and sell them on the idea that it’s not just a machinist’s job. I’m standing here and pressing buttons, checking parts, and it’s, it’s going wherever. Letting them know that you’re part of something bigger. Everybody is. Everybody in manufacturing is, whether you realize it or not. But what might attract that young, talented guy and get them excited? Cause that’s going to be the next thing. If you start getting burnt out, getting not excited, you’re not going to want to do that anymore and you’re not going to maintain that talent, so keeping them excited about what you’re doing and what you’re building and that it, it’s more than just this machine you’re running every day.

Carman Pirie: Man I think that is such an incredibly important lesson, John, to people who are listening to this and maybe thinking, you know what, I don’t work in a factory. Family manufacturing enterprise. I don’t know how relevant this is to me. Hit rewind. Just think about what John just said there, because I’ve, even in the last six months, I’ve led a purpose envisioning workshop for a manufacturer one division of a multi-billion dollar manufacturing enterprise. And in talking to the leadership and in talking to those team members, time and again, they, where they really got saw their purpose and got their value and kind of saw their worth, if you will, was in looking at what. The end product was that their clients were able to create what they were able to do whether it was helping a pharmaceutical company save lives or a life sciences company or what have you save lives or other areas of the economy. In this particular case, that’s what got those employees motivated. And just what you’re saying like that, that the cool factor, this is going on a plane, but also, that’s a damn important thing. I keep people safe and on. And some people will get really excited about that. And I just think that’s just so broadly applicable and it flies in the face of the way that it used to be, which was, you’re just damn lucky to have a job. Those days are over, right? 

John Koehler: Yeah, I would say so. You gotta, I, uh, the Manhattan project, which, which was, the project that developed the atom bomb, not to bring up maybe a sour subject, but. It’s one of those things where you were able to motivate 150,000 people to strive towards a goal of hopefully ending World War Two.

Not only that, they couldn’t talk about it, they couldn’t do anything, but they were motivated. They were motivated by an end goal. So the idea is to try to adopt the same thing. What we’re making aircraft parts. We’re making an airplane safer. We’re trying to make air travel cheaper. We’re trying to, benefit for the greater good, if you will. And if you can get people to realize what they’re doing, it’s amazing what they can be motivated,  to accomplish something, whether that’s flight in general, or whether that’s something like atomic energy, which ultimately is the result of everything that went on. But, when people see a vision and get focused, the sky’s the limit is what I say. So if you can, if you like, you got to sell them on it though. 

Carman Pirie: And I feel like they sometimes react and are surprised that they can have that impact from Springfield, Ohio.

John Koehler: I would say so. A lot of the younger guys, even some of my generation, I’m in my late thirties, I brought some of them in the shop. Friends might’ve never been here, knew what kind of what we just I had no idea this was here, so opening people’s eyes look around, that brick building, that metal building down the street, Something amazing is happening in there, and it’s not something to be intimidated by it’s something to be excited about, opportunity is everywhere. Typically it’s wearing an apron though.

Carman Pirie: Changing gears a little bit. One of the challenges that people who aren’t part of the family often cite with family enterprises is sometimes the decision-making seems a little opaque if you will. Or at the very least, hard for them to impact, or there may be influences that they can’t necessarily impact. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on the decision-making processes and things that thinking of family enterprises from a bit more of the family side, 

John Koehler: they can be opaque to me sometimes too. 

Jeff White: was the time you got left out of Thanksgiving dinner, right? 

John Koehler: Yeah. No, I would, the hardest thing is like to realize what kind of impact are you making. Some people think the boss is making the decision of what to do, but really the truth is the customer is, and sometimes. That is hard to convey to, further down the ladder as to, this is why we’re doing this. Communication is important. So I want to be clear on that. So if you feel that opaqueness, sometimes it might just be a little bit more communication is needed, not necessarily that you’re being ignored. And, anybody can bring a good idea. to the table and certainly got to listen to everybody. But I would say your customer drives your business for decisions being made, whether it’s the equipment you’re buying, how you’re doing something, what material something’s made out of, should you think it should be something different?

So not to, I would say not to be discouraged by the fact that you don’t think you’re being listened to but understand that. That greater good thing, it’s the customer we’re trying to satisfy. So sometimes that can not be very clear to everybody. It might make somebody feel like they’re not being listened to.

Jeff White: How are you framing that? Because I mean you know, as in being a leader within a business, there are things that you understand that not everybody does. And, especially some of those direct customer requirements and things like that may not necessarily be easily understood by everyone on the team.

How are you communicating those things other than simply, letting them know that this is driven, not just by us, but by the people that are buying from us.

John Koehler: I, with the guys that I interact with directly, try to convey to them what I see when I go to a customer so that they’re clear on maybe where our direction is going to be in the end, the struggles that I see. What the customer is telling me they’re having difficulty with might dictate the kind of jobs that I take on that kind of thing. You don’t have to share, specifics or anything, but, if you go into a customer facility, you can quickly get an understanding of, where their pain points are and come back and talk to the guys and go, why aren’t we doing more work for them? Or it’s they’re. They’re pain points, not necessarily our niche. I like doing, I like doing aerospace work for sure. It’s exciting. But, we might not be able to do more work for that particular customer because they’re not looking for that machining service. They’re looking for whatever it may be, more of a specialized grinding or something like that. It does two things. It lets the employees feel involved because they’re, they get to hear a little bit of what I see when I’m out there doing sales, if you will. And again, you never know what suggestion they might have to say, Oh, that’s what you saw. I saw this once or, whatever kind of feedback you might get from them. And I think, Hopefully, that, I don’t want to say makes them feel more apart, hopefully they feel more apart because they are of the overall making decisions when you start sharing things like that with them. What you’re seeing at a customer’s place, what you’re seeing the direction of their needs are and maybe why or why not you can’t do something that either they’re suggesting. It just makes you feel a part of something. As someone who’s young coming into an established family business, that’s how it started with me. Just a little bit of sharing of what’s going on there and, what’s going on at a customer. It makes you feel a little bit more included and keeps me interested because there’s no requirement for me to be here either I can leave too, so I try to…

Carman Pirie: That’s an interesting question. 

John Koehler: I try to push that down to everybody else, share those same things that were shared with me. That generated that interest to go, okay, I like this, I can continue to do this. 

Carman Pirie: But that is an interesting point. Do you ever talk to your friends who don’t work in a family business or what have you and say, Eh, maybe I should do that instead, or maybe it would be easier if the family didn’t own this business?

John Koehler: Yeah, I would, I have several friends who are, I’m not calling anybody out who are in manufacturing and it’s a lot like you said, they just don’t understand the decisions that are being made and I can appreciate that. And like I said, I, in my, and this is my humble opinion, it’s just a lack of communication and sometimes we’re fortunate to be a smaller family business, if you will. So I’m here every day. My dad’s present. He’s here. All my aunts and uncles are here every day. There’s direct involvement, right? So I think that gives you a sense of The employees a sense of security because they see us every day.

Some of my other friends work for smaller companies, but some of the family are not there because they’re aging out, if you will, my grandfather’s generation and the baby boomers are responsible for the industrial expansion since World War II. And since then everybody, as we’ve now got to where we are now, a lot of them are at retirement age those baby boomers, and those small family businesses are going away as they get eaten up by other companies absorbing other ones.

And you kinda start to get that disconnect a little bit. That’s the only thing that. We’ve been able to maintain, we’re management heavy, for sure, but, we, nobody’s really stepped away where you have that, the decision maker’s not really there or not directly involved anymore. And so that communication is missing all of a sudden. At some point, we may be there. The goal is hoping to continue that communication to keep people happy, because I don’t want somebody ever saying, ah, my boss, he’s crazy. 

Carman Pirie: I’ve often said where two or more people are engaged in some sort of endeavour and something isn’t going quite right. It almost always comes down to communication and sometimes it can really just seem like you can’t communicate too much. It’s and you can, if you’re the kind of person that’s reasonably efficient in communication, it can make you shake your head and maybe beat it against the wall a bit. But that is a fascinating thing. I’d be curious to move a bit beyond because you’ve talked about that bit of a timeline, if you will, about how things have evolved and the industrial expansion and where things are going as you try to look into your crystal ball and how the family business is going and the trajectory of industrial enterprise more broadly. What do you what do you see as either the biggest opportunity around the corner or the biggest concern? You can pick either. 

John Koehler: The biggest opportunity or the biggest concern for us as a company or for the industry in general. 

Carman Pirie: Either for the company or for you personally. 

John Koehler: The biggest concern, I would say, would have to be the smaller companies that are getting eaten up by the bigger ones and absorbing capabilities as we try to continue to be competitive, the market used to be, you had Fred down the street, he machined. Bob, he’s next door, he’s grinding. Joe down the street, he’s plating, and that was the way of things because everybody had their own little small shop.

As that changes. And those people either retire, go out of business, or are absorbed, it’s, it will definitely be more difficult for us to remain competitive if we don’t figure out how to provide those additional services to customers because of our competitors. Are going to be able to provide those services that potentially we cannot.

So whether that’s through, an ASL, a proof supplier list, trying to manage suppliers and create relationships with other companies of either similar size or bigger that will be to our advantage because. That’s what, that’s the opportunity I see in the future is as you start to go, as you start to go up to tier one manufacturers the Boeings of the world, the Hondas, the Toyotas and everything like that they’re not going to want to go to Fred, Joe, Bob’s and Frank’s. They want to just go to Fred’s and have it all done and come back in because as complex as things become, it’s only going to become more so more parts nowadays, make up a car than ever before. And I think that will only continue on. So it’ll be competitors that we’re gonna have to compete against are no longer going to just be machine shops.

It’s going to be facilities that can accommodate. All the way up the bill of material of whatever it is the customers bring you. I see more and more parts that are assembled and painted and being asked to quote than just that valve body, for example, and they just want the valve body, there’s less and less of that and more and more of the other. So that’ll be our challenge in the future.

Carman Pirie: Yeah, that makes total sense to me that it’s happening in so many areas, so many sectors that consolidation that’s happening as part of the great baby boomer retirement. And that means that a lot of Smaller competitors will be gobbled up into more comprehensive offerings. And it was some economies of scale that may drive some price pressure. So I think whether you’re in tooling like KK tool is or other areas of the industrial supply chain that is a consistent experience and challenge, I think and appreciate you raising it, John. This has been a fascinating conversation. I’ve just enjoyed picking your brain and getting inside of what it is to be a Gopher and have the enterprise, and I think you, have a good knack for underselling yourself with that with that title. But thanks for sharing your expertise with us today. It’s been fantastic to have you on the show. 

John Koehler: No, thank you. I enjoy talking about it and anytime I’m happy to sit down and talk some more. 

Jeff White: Fantastic, John. All the best in the future. 

John Koehler: Thanks. Thank you guys. 

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