The Power of Customer Experience: How to Stand Out in B2B MarketingThe Power of Customer Experience: How to Stand Out in B2B Marketing

The Power of Customer Experience: How to Stand Out in B2B Marketing Transcript:

Jeff White: Welcome to The Kula Ring, a podcast for manufacturing marketers brought to you by Kula Partners. My name is Jeff White. Joining me today is Carman Perry. Carman, how are you doing, sir? 

Carman Pirie: I’m as happy as I could be to be here. I think, Jeff, it’s like things are going well. I can’t complain. How are you doing?

Jeff White: I’m doing great. I’m doing great. Nice. Yeah. Today’s topic because. I think the notion of customer experience, like it’s on the tip of everybody’s tongue. We hear a lot about it through the lens of B2C marketing for sure, but everybody in the manufacturing space understands that they can’t ignore a customer experience.

It’s it’s not just something that own is only for the cool kids over in the consumer place space to, to play with. In fact, I would argue that they’re not nearly as cool as they might thinking. B2B can bring some of that over too. But, so yeah I’m interested just to unpack what it means, how to think about it.

I think today’s guest is gonna be a great one. 

Jeff White: Yeah, no, let’s dive right in. So joining us today is Dan Gingiss. Dan is the Chief experience maker at Experience Maker. Welcome to The Kula Ring, Dan. 

Dan Gingiss: Thank you. I’m excited to get down and dirty and B2B with you and and why customer experience is the ultimate competitive differentiator.

Carman Pirie: Dan, it’s wonderful to have you on the show. I know that you’re an incredibly sought after speaker on the topic, so I thank you for joining us today. It is really an honor to have you on the, on, on the show. 

Dan Gingiss: My pleasure. This is what I live and breathe I’m always excited to talk about it.

Carman Pirie: I guess first things first. What led you to live and breathe this? Why what, why the focus on customer experience. What led you to that? 

Dan Gingiss: So I actually spent 20 years in corporate America, almost all of it, in marketing only in one of my later jobs that I get into the customer experience space.

And it was fascinating because I realized that all this work I had done in marketing. With, I got my start in direct mail, but worked my way up through email and social media and web and mobile and SEO. And to me, none of it matters if you have word of mouth marketing because word of mouth is more powerful than any of those things.

And it comes down to really a simple fact. It always sounds better when someone else is saying nice things about us than when we’re saying nice things about ourselves. So I realized that customer experience was the way to get there and the best way to generate word of mouth marketing. Sure. If you know how to create a viral video, please go ahead.

But usually we can’t do those on demand, and so the best way to get word of mouth is to provide an experience that’s worth talking about. 

Jeff White: But man, those early days of direct mail were pretty heady though, right? They were fun. And, 

Dan Gingiss: I still have my my, it was basically an atlas that that had maps of different areas of the country because we would identify by ZIP code who we wanted to target.

And and I actually remember, for a while I was marketing sports paraphernalia. And so we had to get really good about, hey, in Chicago Cubs fans and White Sox fans don’t wanna see the others paraphernalia, right? So we’ve gotta divide it along county lines and all this stuff. And all of it was it was manual at the time.

And I actually think it was great preparation though for digital marketing because although the channels changed, the concepts didn’t. 

Jeff White: The original channel conflict, trying to keep, two different baseball team fans from being upset with each other. Exactly. 

Carman Pirie: To be fair, Dan did warn us that he may try to turn this into a baseball podcast and there, we’re just a few minutes in.

Jeff White: I know. One game. That’s where we are right now. That’s where we’re recording. It’s two to one. Exactly. Yeah. 

Carman Pirie: I think that hooking on what Jeff was saying there a little bit, frankly I find it fascinating. I think the direct mail side of things would absolutely inform your approach here.

It’s one of the, there was a level of cus customer intimacy for marketers in direct mail that in some ways marketers didn’t get to experience if they were, say, helping guide a television production or something like that. So that’s not. It’s surprising to me, I suppose then that you found your way to customer experience from that that background.

It’s interesting. 

Dan Gingiss: And also what goes around comes around. So today direct mail is somewhat becoming cool again because if if you’ve been around any number of decades, you know that. When we were younger, our mailbox was a lot fuller than it is today. And today I always joke by the time I go from my mailbox, which is at the end of my driveway to my recycling bin, which is at the front of my driveway, I’ve basically just deposited everything in there, right?

It’s a few steps. I look at the mail and it’s gone. And that actually does create opportunity for people because there isn’t so much mail to sift through anymore. And so it, it is a little bit easier to stand out. 

Carman Pirie: Look, I’m never gonna have an opportunity to introduce this bit of advice on the show, so I’m going to do so right now for those listening.

The one direct mail that you can send that has a hundred percent open rate is a box. There’s nobody on the planet that’s going to get a box in the mail or via courier and not open it. Just FYI. All right. Now that we’ve got the, look we’re already delivering a great value. We’re five minutes in.

This is fantastic.

A framework for how you think about customer experience and how to go from, being a bit of an also ran in a category to being somebody that is worth talking about to drive that word of mouth. Talk to us about that. How do you think about that initiative and how to get it started?

Dan Gingiss: Sure. So I think it, it begins with this basic knowledge that in almost every industry competing on price is a losing game. We don’t want to get into that battle because it’s a race to the bottom and competing on product. And I’m gonna say this carefully with manufacturers listening, competing on product is becoming more and more difficult because so much can be copied.

And we think we have a product that’s unique, and then next thing we know, someone else is doing something substantially similar. So when you take those two things outta the equation, the only thing left to compete on is experience. But the good news is that it is the one thing that your competitors can’t copy.

And so that’s the basis for it. And then the model is called Wise, and it is because I want more people to be wise to the power of customer experience. And the idea of WISE is creating customer experiences at scale because. Whatever size business we have lots of different customers and we are trying to make sure that each touchpoint that we have with them is memorable in some way.

And so there are, there’s a lot to it and we have to be able to scale it quickly. The four elements of wise are, the W is witty, the I is immersive, the S is shareable. The E is extraordinary and I’m happy to go through each of these quickly and explain what they are. And then maybe we can talk a little bit about how we might apply them.

To your audience’s business. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah, I think that would be helpful. I’d just be nice to just get into each one of them and just understand and begin to imagine how that would come to life in the B2B context. So please. 

Dan Gingiss: Yeah, so the W’s about being witty and witty is not about being funny.

It’s actually just about having fun. And I believe that business can be fun and business transactions can be fun no matter what it is that we’re selling. And frankly, most customers or clients want to have fun, have you ever met anybody that doesn’t want to smile, for example, right? Most people enjoy smiling, and if we can make them smile, we’re having an impact on them.

And so with Witty, it’s about looking at all of your communication points, whether they’re digital, whether they’re physical online, in real, in person. Every time we communicate with people, we have an opportunity to create an experience. So you could think about signage in a physical location.

You could think about email signatures in a digital sense. You could think about your contracts and your invoices. When it’s time to pay a bill, that’s not a usual fun part of the experience. But what if we put a smile on people’s face? So anytime we’re communicating. It’s an opportunity instruction manuals, I could go on and on.

If you’re using words, basically. Why not have some fun with it? Quick story from my book about ordering a a TV stand from Target. And I am not a guy that likes to build furniture. Some people like that, some people don’t. I don’t like it. And so I called my teenage son and I’m like, all right, man, look, I’ll pay you, but I need your help.

We’re probably gonna take us two hours to do. It’s gonna suck. We’ll put on some music, whatever. So we pull it all outta the box and. I get the instruction manual out and the very first sentence of the instruction manual says, don’t sweat this. It’s gonna be way easier than you think. And that sentence completely changed my mindset.

All of a sudden I was in a positive mood and I was like, yeah, prove it to me. Let’s go. And that thing took us about 25 minutes to build, and they were right. They delivered on it. It really was very easy. And this is the power of language. And and I don’t think that we use it enough. We take it for granted too often when we’re doing business.

So that’s a witty part. 

Carman Pirie: And so let’s not go too far away from it before I ask the question about that, because I think one of the things that marketers look, we’re pretty good at thinking that we’re clever. So if you ask many marketers if they can. Imagine writing something like that at the start of the instruction, man.

No. They could get their head around that. And part of the reason they think they could get their head around that is they see that maybe they may be the one doing it and they’re fairly certain it might, it would be clever if they’re doing it, but they wonder. Can we be witty at scale? So you talked about part of this is about being at scale.

I wonder, ha have you seen experiences where people are, have provided some guidelines to a, across the organization for a little bit about how does this organization, how are we witty at scale? How does that come to life? 

Dan Gingiss: Yeah, so as with anything marketing related, obviously we want to have brand standards and we wanna make sure that we’re, somewhat consistent in our communication, but it really is just about being willing to have a little bit of fun.

And so often in business it isn’t, it’s exactly the opposite of that. And so once we teach our employees that it is okay to have a little bit of fun. Then the creativity starts flowing and you find that there are just lots of different opportunities, whether it is in traditional marketing or advertising or it’s in any other point where we engage with customers.

And ’cause if you think about, say, the sales process of selling equipment, there’s a lot of. Steps that happen. There’s a lot of interactions with the customers now. They don’t all have to be fun and games, but if there are a couple of points in those interactions that are surprising to people or memorable to people in some way, then we stand out and that’s when people start talking about us.

That and this is what we want, right? We want people talking about us. I always suggest to people that before we worry about we worry about scale. Let’s just do it once. Let’s just figure out one place that we can do it and we’ll get our customer’s reaction. Because oftentimes the pushback that I’ll get is, wow.

Customers don’t want us to be funny and they want us to, we’re a very serious business. This is where I come back to. It’s not about being funny, it’s not humor necessarily, but it is about showing the humanity behind your brand. That that, even though you’re a big manufacturer, there’s humans that work for you.

There’s real people behind the brand. And real people have hobbies and they have fun and they know how to smile, and we can transfer that to our customers. And so that’s where I, I always suggest start someplace small. If you go to my website, for example, and you type in dan gingis.com and then hit slash just hit a bunch of buttons or a bunch of, letters so you know it’s a bad URL, you’re gonna get to an error page, which.

Most companies says 404 error. Now a nobody knows what 4 0 4 means. I think it’s a coding number of some sort, but it means nothing to a con, to a consumer or to a buyer. And secondly, there’s an opportunity to create an experience, and so when you hit my error page, you’ll probably smile because I decided to just have fun with the error page.

I have fun with my privacy policy and all these other pages that you don’t expect anybody to have any fun with. But then when you hit that as a customer, you’re like, wow, this is a different kind of company. This was unexpected. And this is again, what gets people to start remembering. 

Jeff White: I think what’s interesting here and this notion of, it doesn’t have to be funny, but it still can be witty.

It really comes down to. Defining what that means for your organization. I think this is really where brand archetypes come to life really. You can still be a ruler brand like Mercedes-Benz and be witty, you may not be funny, you can be clever and witty and that can still work.

And I think that’s you. Setting those guidelines for the entire organization. I like what you said about, let’s try it once and see how, what the response is. Obviously that’s a great way to, to test the waters and maybe then work it into that. But if you have those definitions of how we talk as a brand, how we go to market as a brand, that archetype can provide some great guidance for organizations that maybe would be reticent to give this a go.

Carman Pirie: I hear what you’re saying there, Jeff. And I think Dan is highlights a really important point for listeners as well is that in some ways the more serious or the more, buttoned down an organization or a category is, then the more, a little bit of whit will stand out too. 

Dan Gingiss: For sure. A hundred percent.

Carman Pirie: I don’t want to I don’t wanna get all of this conversation done on the first of of a four letter acronym. So let’s continue along to 

Dan Gingiss: Sure. So being immersive is about creating experiences that people feel in their bones, and usually we do this by appealing to one of the five senses or appealing to.

People’s emotions, and this is a great place to try this out, is in your sales process, right? Because if you think about why we buy from the people that we buy from, usually it’s ’cause we like them, right? And usually we’ve created some connection with them that may or may not have anything to do with our product.

And so when we’re immersive. We are looking for ways to bring in multiple senses or to leverage different emotions that might be at play. And the reason we do this is because that’s what memories are made of. So you think about some of your best childhood memories, chances are you can remember either something that you are seeing, smelling, tasting, touching, or hearing.

You can probably remember how you felt during that moment. You were happy, sad, scared, excited, whatever it was, and. That’s what forms our memories. So when we look at being immersive, it’s about doing this intentionally creating parts of our experience where we want people to feel something. So maybe it’s about allowing people to, i’ll tell you what, I just did a speech recently for a a heavy equipment manufacturer and I got to ride in a forklift and I’ve never ridden in a forklift, right? But what do I do? Of course, I pull out my camera, I take a picture, their brand is right there on the forklift and I’m telling everybody about it, right?

And that’s an immersive experience for me. To even just be able to sit in the seat and and view the world from the height of a forklift was pretty cool. And those are the kinds of things we’re talking about is allowing the customer to be involved some way in the process or in the experience.

It could also be. Let’s say somebody already placed an order for you and there’s a waiting period, right? Because chances are you’re not delivering this equipment next day. Like Amazon, you’re probably taking some time to manufacture it. But what if you had some people taking videos of the manufacturing process and you were able to send it to your client and say, look, here’s the forklift we’re making for you.

This is your forklift, and there it is on the assembly line. That’s really cool because it gets the customer in there with you, if not physically, at least emotionally. So there’s lots of ways that we can be immersive. That’s just a couple of examples. 

Carman Pirie: I really like the you’re forcing me to imagine kinda how you design that process from the start, how you go into it with intention and this notion of how do you I’m imagining being given the challenge to connect a core product benefit.

And how do you or a service benefit or what have you, and how do you in some way find a way of connecting that to a sensory experience? And we stumbled upon one of these probably a year and a half ago now or so, we were doing some work with a plumbing valve manufacturer. And their plumbing valves use more brass than anyone else’s.

And so as a result, and so the highest quality valves on the market, they would suggest, but how do you communicate that other than saying, we use the more brass? It turns out that because they use more brass, their valves are by far and away the heaviest in the category. So by directing to that sensory experience, hold one, pick it up, feel that difference.

It, reminds me of. A Mercedes car door versus a Japanese brand car door much heavier. And we associate heavy with quality. I don’t know if you can get to that tight, a connection between product benefit and sensory experience every time, but it seems to me to be a great place to get to.

If you could get there. 

Dan Gingiss: Absolutely. That’s a great example. And no, you don’t have to do it every time, but you start figuring out ways to do it, and then they work, and then you figure out more ways to do it. And so I think that’s an excellent example. And my question would be, I don’t know how big these valves are, but how do we get ’em in as many hands as possible because that might be a really good way to sell them.

Because if that’s the, if all I’ve gotta do is do this and be like, yep, I can tell this is higher quality and I don’t know a thing about plumbing valves. I think that’s a, super smart. I thought you were gonna get into perhaps the color of it, if it’s brass. I don’t know if brass smells any different than other metals.

We could certainly if we went back to witty, we could play around with brass ’cause it rhymes with some fun words. So there’s lots of things we can do. We just gotta, we just gotta be creative. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah. And you gotta be willing to try them and do them. Yeah. 

Dan Gingiss: Yeah, 

Carman Pirie: so the S and Ys, 

Dan Gingiss: yeah, so that gets us into shareable and this one’s a little tougher for B two Bs, but absolutely not impossible.

Shareable is really about leveraging this idea that hold on, let me back up a second. One of the things we have to keep in mind in B2B is that we are not selling to a business. We are selling to a human that works at that business. And so that human. Is a consumer. Now, they’re not wearing their consumer hat when they’re buying for us.

They’re wearing their business hat, but they are a consumer in real life, which means they know what it feels like to order a product on Amazon and have it arrive same day. They know what it feels like to go out to a nice restaurant and have amazing, impeccable service to go along with the great food.

They also know what bad experiences are like, and so what shareable is about. It’s finding this moment. ’cause every consumer has had this moment. At some point, you all have had it too. You are in the middle of enjoying life. You’re walking down the street and all of a sudden you reach into your pocket or your purse and you pull out your phone.

You take a picture or a video because you want to capture the moment that’s in front of you. Now, what happens next is usually that you share that image with somebody, and maybe it is with a million followers on social media, but maybe it is just with a friend, a family member, or a colleague. And if you think of the B two PB manufacturing space, we don’t need people sharing it with a million people.

We just need them to tell one other person who could be a prospect for us, and it is. Unbelievable value, right? If every one of our customers, we get every one of our customers to tell one person about us, what does that do for the business? But in order to get them to do that, we have to design a moment intentionally that people are gonna pull out their phone and capture, because that is gonna be one of the best ways for them to share is when we can share visually.

And so again. This is done very purposefully and and the way that I suggest that companies think about this is if you could imagine, let’s say a hundred of your customers go on to Instagram and they make a post about you, what is it that you would like them to be saying and what is it that you would like them to be showing?

And once you come up with that, you can design an experience around it to ensure that is what they’re saying and that is what they’re sharing. And so we have to have in our heads what we want it to be. I’m gonna give you a consumer example here, just ’cause it’s one of my favorites, but it, again, we can take any of these and apply it to our business.

So there’s a, one of my favorite brands is called Dipping Dots, the Ice Cream of the Future. You may know these things. They sell ’em at like amusement parks and stuff. And these little balls are stored at super subzero freezer, so they’re like way colder than your freezer at home. And as a result, when you get your cup of dip and dots and you take the first bite, it usually sticks to your tongue Now.

Kids really like this. Adults, depending on where you grew up, especially if you grew up in a cold weather climate, you don’t like anything sticking to your tongue ’cause you got bad memories. And so this is an aspect of the product that they can’t control for. So they decided to lean into it with their marketing and they, all they did was start posting on social media pictures of people with dipping dots on their tongue.

That’s it. And everybody figured out that was the moment. So henceforth, every time you go to get Dipping dots, you take that selfie with that first bite when it sticks to your tongue. And now people know to do that. They imagined the moment that they wanted people to take a picture of and share, and then they just put it out there and give them the hint to do it, and people figured it out.

So in B2B, it’s a little tougher, but I would say still you’ve got such interesting equipment that maybe it’s, I’m just making this up, but maybe the moment is the first time you. Turn on the ignition, like that’s the moment we wanna capture. Great. How do we get people to capture that moment? How do we get people to be thinking at that moment, oh my gosh, I gotta record this.

And then we get them to share it. It’s absolutely doable in this space. It again, requires a little bit of creativity. 

Carman Pirie: I think one of the. Interesting applications for that thinking. Would also be imagining how a B2B buyer shares an experience internally to help build internal consensus towards an eventual purchase decision.

A hundred percent. So it’s interesting to think about that. Okay. Creating shareable moments and I like how you’re not getting too. Flushed about how it shared back in the early days of social media, the channels for sharing was the strategy and then what got shared ended up being second sometimes.

But yeah, it it’s a interesting thing for the mind to spin around on, is how do we create those shareable moments that are shareable internally. Of course, getting customers to talk to other customers is also a wonderful thing too. 

Dan Gingiss: Sure. But that’s a great point, and it reminds me of an experience I had.

When I was at a, when I worked for a B2B and I was being solicited by I think it was a software company, and the salesperson sent me a bottle of wine, so to your point, a box, which of course I had to open, but the bottle of wine had a combination lock at the top of it. So you couldn’t open it unless you had the combo and the note attached to it said, call me for the combo.

Right? Which was brilliant. Now, what did I do? I put the bottle of wine on my desk with the lock on it, and all of my colleagues would come around. They’d play with the lock to see if they could guess the combination, right? So I actually intentionally waited a while to call the guy because. It became a conversation piece, exactly like you said, right?

And so whether or not we end up buying for this guy, he made an impression because he was different. He stood out and he gave us something experiential, which means that it was really immersive and shareable. 

Jeff White: Yeah. We’ve always talked about those since the founding of Kula as an agency, as, this notion of a social object, something that you create that is meant to be socialized with others. And the, I think, your point there is the intentionality with which you create that item to be shared so that it can be shared in the way that you want it to be. At the very least, giving them the power to do 

Dan Gingiss: yeah. Correct. Otherwise, we’re just waiting around for people to talk about us and we don’t even know what they’re gonna say when they do. We wanna be able to control this a little bit because if we can get people saying exactly what we want them to say in the places we want them to say it.

So that brings us to extraordinary. And extraordinary is usually the part where people start to get a little worried ’cause they think it’s expensive because it sounds expensive, but it really isn’t. And the reason is that the vast majority of experiences that we have as either consumers or B2B buyers are ordinary.

They’re average. They’re what millennials call meh. They’re what? Gen Z call mid. Every generation has a word for this, but those are not. The types of experiences that people talk about with others. And so this is about looking at our customer journey and figuring out where are we ordinary, which is generally gonna be in a lot of places.

And then it’s not about having to go from a incandescent light bulb to massive fireworks in the sky, like that’s too big of a jump. It’s really about. Taking a little step above to be just a little extra, and that’s what extraordinary, literally means is better than ordinary. And so when we think of it that way, it becomes way more approachable.

And there are tons of ways that we can do this. When I was in corporate America and I managed many teams over the years. All the folks that worked for me knew that there were basically only two answers you could never give me because I did not accept these as answers. Now, answer number one is because we’ve always done it that way.

That’s a terrible answer. And then answer number two is because everyone else does it that way. And if you ever hear either of those answers, you can be assured that what you’re doing is ordinary. It’s, it is not standing out in any way. And so the metaphor that I use here when I when I do keynotes is a longer story that I won’t bore you with here.

But it’s basically the difference between a candle and a sparkler and a candle is nice. It provides light. On top of a slice of birthday cake, it’s pleasant. But a sparkler is so much more than that. And a sparkler is engaging and a sparkler is different and it stands out and it’s worth taking a picture of.

And yet it’s not particularly more expensive. It’s not more operationally complex ’cause we light it the same way. It doesn’t require technology or ai, it’s just different from a candle. A candle’s ordinary, and so therefore, the sparkler becomes extraordinary. And so regardless of, and I’m not suggesting people play with fire either, we can use it as a metaphor that we’re just looking for that sparkler moment that we can have with customers where we are different from everybody else in a pleasantly surprising way.

Carman Pirie: I wanna see if I read something recently. It was an admin out of the UK that was talking about how being differentiated. From your competitors is in some ways, oddly suggesting it was some ways overrated and what was underrated was being distinctive. And I’m thinking, I’m wondering if we’re knocking on the door of what you were saying with candles versus sparklers ’cause kind, what he was saying there is I think a lot of marketers.

When they hear you gotta be different they, they hear, oh my goodness. We need to do, we need to sell fundamentally different things in, or we need to do so in fundamentally different ways. I don’t have the power to do all of that, to make all of those decisions required for us to be so different from everybody else in the industry.

And, but it feels to me to be a lighter lift to say no. You can do the similar things. You’re in a category for a reason. You sur you’re making a, the widget in the category that buys widget, but you can do so distinctively in a way that stands out versus, and I I find it’s an interesting distinction, 

Dan Gingiss: yeah. I’ll give you two examples of where I think this comes into play. I didn’t actually know this. Somebody came up to me after a speech and told me that in every Jeep. That there is basically an Easter egg that you have to hunt for that has a, it’s etched somewhere or it’s, and I guess each one of their models has a different one, and it’s just a little symbol and everybody knows it’s there, but they don’t know where it is.

And so there’s a little bit of a scavenger hunt element to it. Super cool. An equipment manufacturer could do something like that. Or flip over to another industry that I’ve worked in is the boating industry. And I, was talking to a bunch of manufacturers these are big, expensive items, six figures, just like we’re talking about here.

Usually they’re, they are using wood more often. And so I said if you’re building this customized boat for someone and you’re using all of this wood, certainly you’ve got a couple of scraps at the end of it, right? And they said, yeah, of course. And I said. Why don’t you make the customer a customized key chain so that when they go to turn on their boat, every time they’ve got this key chain there that makes ’em smile and they remember you every time they turn on the boat.

And how much is that key chain gonna cost? You’re using the sa, you’re using a scrap piece of wood from the same boat, but you’re etching their initials in it or whatever you’re doing. It’s this tiny little thing. That is gonna make an impact. Every single time they take out their boat, they’re gonna remember you.

And I think what you will have crazy enough is I think you’ll have people taking pictures, not of their boat, but of the dang key chain, right? Because it’s the thing that’s the distinctive piece. That’s the thing that they didn’t expect and it didn’t have to be expensive or or complicated in any way.

It’s just. I think distinctive is a great word. There’s a friend of mine who is also a customer experience speaker who uses that word, which is why I don’t use it, because I need to be distinctive from the distinctive guy. 

Carman Pirie: Yeah. But 

Jeff White: really what you’re talking about here is just actually trying to have creative ideas that you can execute in a relatively inexpensive way that cause people to talk about you.

Dan Gingiss: Yeah, 

That’s a hundred percent. And the problem in most corporate America is that we don’t do anything simply, like everything’s complicated. And so even with customer experience, part of the reason I went down this path with Wise is that when I was in corporate America and I worked for Big Fortune 200 companies.

Customer experience was this massive, multi-year, multi-million dollar transformational project, which basically meant nothing happened or it was being prioritized against other massive, multi-year, multi-million dollar projects. And I say, forget about all of that. Just focus on the simple stuff that we can control.

And what you start to realize is that in almost every business relationship, there are thousands of opportunities to. Change something up. And we don’t have to make, we don’t have to change the entire customer journey all at once. We can just find these little opportunities. And what I definitely find is that little experiences, it is the little things positive and negative.

It is the little things that people remember about their experience. And it is, it’s usually not the big things, it’s the little things that stand out. 

Carman Pirie: And I have to imagine that once you get in the habit of creating some wise experiences, you get better at spotting other opportunities to create more of them.

It’s a great reason to just simply get started and not make it a multi, multi-hundred million dollar initiative. Look. Dan, this has been a fantastic conversation. I really thank you for bringing your experience to the show today. It’s been a pleasure. 

Dan Gingiss: My pleasure as well. It’s as I mentioned at the top it’s always fun for me to talk about this stuff, and I’ve been fortunate enough to work across so many different industries, B2C, MB, two B, and I do find that almost every company.

Facing the same challenges. And this is one of the ways out of those challenges, it is being different in a way that isn’t copyable but also doesn’t break the bank. So I encourage everybody to just try something just try it somewhere in your customer journey. When you start to see positive responses, you’re gonna wanna do more.

Jeff White: Wonderful. Thanks Dan.